4 ms·

Baez is right, there's no such thing as "virtual plasma". Just Google the phrase.

tobinfricke 12y ago
To expand on that a little: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/#.U-N7iJs-uHd http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-v... >>In the paper by White et al, they also write that the Cannae Drive “is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma.” That last bit stopped me. What’s a quantum vacuum virtual plasma? I’d never heard the term, so I dropped a note to Sean Carroll, a Caltech physicist whose work dives deeply into speculative realms of cosmology and quantum theory. Carroll wrote back immediately, with a pointed message: “There is no such thing as a ‘quantum vacuum virtual plasma,’ so that should be a tip-off right there. There is a quantum vacuum, but it is nothing like a plasma. In particular, it does not have a rest frame, so there is nothing to push against, so you can’t use it for propulsion. The whole thing is just nonsense. They claim to measure an incredibly tiny effect that could very easily be just noise.” There is no theory to support the result, and there is no verified result to begin with.<<
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Huh. I thought the OP experiment WAS verification.
  - scott_s 12y ago
    Because lots can go wrong, one experiment is not a verification. Particularly when the measurements are so sensitive. And I'm aware this is the third experiment, but with a result that is so counter to basic theory, we need many more.
- lnanek2 12y ago
  Pretty strange response, there are lots of things that prove virtual particles are a legitimate model, even for things like generating force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
readerrrr 12y ago
You missed the point. Someone probably used a different phrase trying to describe a physical phenomena, which exists, under a different description. You can take a look at some popular lectures of Dr.Krauss where he describes empty space in more detail, which is full of virtual particles.
- jdmichal 12y ago
  It's not a missed point. The term "plasma" means something very specific. You can't just take an existing thing (virtual particles) and slap the term "plasma" to the end of it and necessarily be correct.
- cousin_it 12y ago
  Imagine you're reading a paper about programming, and suddenly it mentions "refactoring the abstract megabyte". A non-programmer might insist that replacing "megabyte" with "class" makes the phrase kinda sorta meaningful, so the paper is totally legit. But I don't think you'd buy it. When you're unfamiliar with some field, and insiders to that field tell you that misuse of technical terms is a strong red flag, you'd better believe them. Their words come from painful experience.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
tomp 12y ago
Isn't that a reference to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle

To expand on that a little: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-validate-imposible-space-drive-word/#.U-N7iJs-uHd http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/outthere/2014/08/06/nasa-v... >>In the paper by White et al, they also write that the Cannae Drive “is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma.” That last bit stopped me. What’s a quantum vacuum virtual plasma? I’d never heard the term, so I dropped a note to Sean Carroll, a Caltech physicist whose work dives deeply into speculative realms of cosmology and quantum theory. Carroll wrote back immediately, with a pointed message: “There is no such thing as a ‘quantum vacuum virtual plasma,’ so that should be a tip-off right there. There is a quantum vacuum, but it is nothing like a plasma. In particular, it does not have a rest frame, so there is nothing to push against, so you can’t use it for propulsion. The whole thing is just nonsense. They claim to measure an incredibly tiny effect that could very easily be just noise.” There is no theory to support the result, and there is no verified result to begin with.<<

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Huh. I thought the OP experiment WAS verification.
- scott_s 12y ago
  Because lots can go wrong, one experiment is not a verification. Particularly when the measurements are so sensitive. And I'm aware this is the third experiment, but with a result that is so counter to basic theory, we need many more.
lnanek2 12y ago
Pretty strange response, there are lots of things that prove virtual particles are a legitimate model, even for things like generating force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

readerrrr 12y ago

You missed the point. Someone probably used a different phrase trying to describe a physical phenomena, which exists, under a different description. You can take a look at some popular lectures of Dr.Krauss where he describes empty space in more detail, which is full of virtual particles.

jdmichal 12y ago
It's not a missed point. The term "plasma" means something very specific. You can't just take an existing thing (virtual particles) and slap the term "plasma" to the end of it and necessarily be correct.
cousin_it 12y ago
Imagine you're reading a paper about programming, and suddenly it mentions "refactoring the abstract megabyte". A non-programmer might insist that replacing "megabyte" with "class" makes the phrase kinda sorta meaningful, so the paper is totally legit. But I don't think you'd buy it. When you're unfamiliar with some field, and insiders to that field tell you that misuse of technical terms is a strong red flag, you'd better believe them. Their words come from painful experience.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

tomp 12y ago

Isn't that a reference to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle