3 ms·

Besides the frequency of the electromagnetic waves , is this the same concept as the "Pioneer Anomaly" - where they eventually figured out it was thermal radiat

Besides the frequency of the electromagnetic waves , is this the same concept as the "Pioneer Anomaly" - where they eventually figured out it was thermal radiation emitted from its satellite dish which slowed down the spacecraft ?

jahnu 12y ago
As far as I can tell it wouldn't matter what the cause of the apparent effect is. Not requiring reaction mass is what makes it interesting.
- Mandelbug 12y ago
  What? Of course the apparent affect matters. If the underlying physical principles can be understood, there is a possibility of increasing its efficiency for larger throughput. And if the underlying process isn't understood, there is no way to rule out something that isn't actually producing thrust or some other fluke. Finally, the whole point of science is to discover things. Not make magic :|
  - jahnu 12y ago
    I don't mean to suggest it wouldn't be of interest. As you point out it would be of paramount interest to discover the physics behind it. The Pioneer Anomaly, however, was very very small indeed. This effect appears to be many orders of magnitude greater.
  - ep103 12y ago
    I think what he means is even if it turned out to just be thermal energy, then that means this device has the capability of directing thermal energy as a viable proportion source, so its still pretty great : )
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- mikeash 12y ago
  It would matter a great deal. If it was just radiated photons a la the Pioneer Anomaly, that's pretty boring. Yes, you can make a drive that runs on pure energy by shooting photons out the back. This is well known, and not very interesting. A flashlight is a really, really, really low-powered rocket. But the thrust you get out for the energy you get in is extremely small, and there's no way to improve on it with the same principle beyond increasing the efficiency of the system. Energy->light systems can already be built with 80% efficiency or better, so there's not much headroom. What would make this phenomenon interesting if it actually works is not merely that it requires no reaction mass, but that it's much more powerful than a photon drive. If it turns out to just be a photon drive, then the magnitude of the effect has been greatly overstated, and this is a really complicated way to achieve the same effect as pointing a laser out the back of your spaceship.

jahnu 12y ago

As far as I can tell it wouldn't matter what the cause of the apparent effect is. Not requiring reaction mass is what makes it interesting.

Mandelbug 12y ago
What? Of course the apparent affect matters. If the underlying physical principles can be understood, there is a possibility of increasing its efficiency for larger throughput. And if the underlying process isn't understood, there is no way to rule out something that isn't actually producing thrust or some other fluke. Finally, the whole point of science is to discover things. Not make magic :|
- jahnu 12y ago
  I don't mean to suggest it wouldn't be of interest. As you point out it would be of paramount interest to discover the physics behind it. The Pioneer Anomaly, however, was very very small indeed. This effect appears to be many orders of magnitude greater.
- ep103 12y ago
  I think what he means is even if it turned out to just be thermal energy, then that means this device has the capability of directing thermal energy as a viable proportion source, so its still pretty great : )
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
mikeash 12y ago
It would matter a great deal. If it was just radiated photons a la the Pioneer Anomaly, that's pretty boring. Yes, you can make a drive that runs on pure energy by shooting photons out the back. This is well known, and not very interesting. A flashlight is a really, really, really low-powered rocket. But the thrust you get out for the energy you get in is extremely small, and there's no way to improve on it with the same principle beyond increasing the efficiency of the system. Energy->light systems can already be built with 80% efficiency or better, so there's not much headroom. What would make this phenomenon interesting if it actually works is not merely that it requires no reaction mass, but that it's much more powerful than a photon drive. If it turns out to just be a photon drive, then the magnitude of the effect has been greatly overstated, and this is a really complicated way to achieve the same effect as pointing a laser out the back of your spaceship.