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I lol'ed at this one: "Accordingly, Edward Snowden was given a three-year residence permit," which will allow him to move about freely and travel abro

• viach 12y ago
  There is nothing about the travel safety in quote you provided
  • junto 12y ago
    No, but that was my point. Snowden cannot safely fly anywhere without risking a sudden and abrupt rendition to the US. He cannot risk flying. The Bolivian incident showed just how powerful the US is when it comes to Snowden and flying. They forced down a presidential jet for god's sake! They were willing to risk a massive diplomatic incident and outcry (toned down) by doing so. He could travel by boat somewhere quietly, but (in my opinion) countries that have offered him some degree of asylum, such as Bolivia, Cuba and Venezuela are not stable or strong enough to oppose the will of the United States of America. If I was Snowden I couldn't imagine anything worse than landing in Bolivia, only to find that two years later a pro-US president miraculously wins the election. The US-CIA have a rather impressive record of subverting elections in South and Central America, so he would be a fool to risk it. Therefore, he is confined to Russia until Russia finds a reason to become the USA's best friend. He can travel overland to any country that is pro-Russia and protected by Russia. That's about it. Most of them are (ex)war zones. Considering the current geo-politics, that scenario is highly unlikely. The status quo is likely to remain, as long as oil, gas, and other natural resources are fought over by the world's major league countries. The US has little (in comparison) natural resources, whilst Russia has more than any other country. Long term, the power scales will tip. The only thing that may change that is a pro-USA Russian government. Oh, and pigs might fly over the Kremlim before that happens.
    • tomjen3 12y ago
      If any country is able to stand up to the US coup attempts, it has to be Cuba.
      • junto 12y ago
        Cuba is softening. Raul has made huge inroads, most recently allowing property ownership, which is huge step forward. Once Fidel dies I think things will start to change. Once Raul dies even more so. The US could rapidly turn Cuban relations around if they wanted something like say 'A Snowden'. He is probably safer in Russia than anywhere else, until he pisses them off. The smart money says he isn't about to do that of his own volution.
    • JasonIpswitch 12y ago
      If he's lucky, the US will end up at odds with China in a few years, giving him another large nation on his "side".
• rjzzleep 12y ago
  how about argentina for example? the non aligned movement has at least 120 member states, you'd think that there are one or two states that don't exactly agree with US foreign policy, eh?
  • higherpurpose 12y ago
    The problem is the US could try and stop his plane again when it passes above some US vassal country like UK, France, Spain, and so on. On the other hand, those countries would have to be pretty stupid to do that right now to Russia and force Putin's hand into a war (regardless of their chances of winning I think we can agree a war in Europe would be bad for all parties).
    • skrause 12y ago
      Would he have to fly through Europe? Isn't a direct flight from the eastern end of Russia over the Pacific possible as well?
      • phantom784 12y ago
        A great circle rotue from eastern Russia to South America would fly over the US - probably the last thing Snowden wants to do. http://i.imgur.com/ScOhPcc.gif http://i.imgur.com/ScOhPcc.gif
    • saalweachter 12y ago
      Is there this problem for a boat? Granted, a boat trip is longer, which is more time for things to (be made to) go wrong, but if a ship is traveling through international waters, are there any grounds for another country to board it and seize its passengers? (With a follow up: is there a sea route between Russia and Friendly Country X which doesn't pass through waters claimed by another country?)
      • icebraining 12y ago
        if a ship is traveling through international waters, are there any grounds for another country to board it and seize its passengers? Legal grounds? Does it matter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid
• DanBC 12y ago
  > He can "travel abroad". Some non-Russians who visit Russia need an exit visa. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/exit-visa.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/exit-visa.asp ------ My original post was getting heavily downvoted, even after the first edit. Here it is, with the first edit. I've ROT13d it to stop people down-voting the (now corrected) mistake. Fbzr angvbaf erdhver gurve pvgvmraf gb trg crezvffvba gb yrnir gur pbhagel. Ehffvn vf bar bs gurfr pbhagevrf. RQVG: V jbeqrq guvf ernyyl onqyl. Ehffvn hfrq gb erdhver vgf pvgvmraf gb trg rkvg ivfnf. Ohg Ehffvn qbrf fgvyy erdhver aba-pvgvmraf gb unir rkvg ivfnf. uggc://jjj.vairfgbcrqvn.pbz/grezf/r/rkvg-ivfn.nfc
  • lazymf 12y ago
    "Russia is one of these countries." Not true.
  • grepz 12y ago
    That is incorrect. The only thing you have to have is foreign passport, as everywhere else. The only exception if you work for government and have some sort of security clearance.
    • qnr 12y ago
      just in case someone misunderstands your post: in Russia, passport for international travel is called "foreign" passport to disambiguate it from the internal ID, which is also called "passport".
  • deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  • paddyoloughlin 12y ago
    Possibly it refers to him being allowed to _return_ to Russia if he travels abroad.
  • jacquesm 12y ago
    It used to be like that for all citizens. But that practice has been abolished quite a while ago, if you have a valid passport and you're not on a list of 'persons of interest' you can leave the country like everywhere else. But you are right in Snowdens case, since foreigners resident in Russia need an 'exit visum' to be allowed to do trips abroad, and clearly Snowden is one of those.
• theklub 12y ago
  Cuba?
• ekianjo 12y ago
  It would be safer not to fly over Ukraine though. You never know, missiles pop up unexpectedly these days.
  • traevesty 12y ago
    That would be a great way to incite war. No government is that stupid.
    • aestra 12y ago
      I believe the GP was referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• slowing13 12y ago
  One of the problems is that he has no valid passport. The US has cancelled his. So he cannot take a regular flight. Also, any country would need to proactively make an exception to their rules to have him enter their territory, welcoming the wrath of the US administration.
  • gpvos 12y ago
    He has a residence permit that allows him to get past Russian exit controls and travel abroad, so I suppose he can get on a plane if he wishes. Getting off will be a problem, yes. He'd have to arrange something with Ecuador, Venezuela, Cuba, or the like.
    • phantom784 12y ago
      Airlines generally won't let you board unless you have the necessary documents to enter the destination country (e.g. a valid passport, a visa if required). In fact, countries will fine airlines for bringing passengers without the correct documents.
      • guard-of-terra 12y ago
        As far as my experience goes, the only thing that gets checked in russian airport (for resident) is your passport. Passport control doesn't know where you are heading nor they care, nobody else checks it. Maybe this is different matter for some flights (for example, to Israel or the USA), where the airline does additional checks on you, but you fly out to Europe and most other destinations unchecked (despite needing a visa to enter).
        • grecy 12y ago
          ..and if your passport doesn't let you into country X, the airline won't let you board. i.e. Russians need a visa to enter country X, you don't have one.
          • 12y ago
• spacefight 12y ago
  The Crimea isn't "abroad" anymore if viewed from the russian side/perspective.
  • junto 12y ago
    I guess that was part of my joke!
• spacefight 12y ago
  The tragedy is here, that it appears that only the russian government is able to give Snowden a permit to stay. All other european nations have declined to host him, that is until now. So much about being independant countries...
  • nly 12y ago
    I imagine it's tricky for any EU member wanting to take him due to the EU having an extradition treaty with the US and the fact that Europe wide arrest warrants are a thing. It's worse for UK residents[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_treaty_of_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_trea...
    • spacefight 12y ago
      There is no arrest warrant, at least not a red alert from interpol. It's all done biliteral on a per country base.
  • TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    A European country could give him a permit, the problem is that doing so would cause a massive diplomatic incident with the US, and most countries would rather not have to deal with that fuss. Russia (actually also European, just not EU European) had nothing to lose in that department, though.
  • Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
    A few things on this: * Snowdon revealled much about GCHQ so you can't really expect the UK government to be any more supportive of his activities than the US one was. I don't know enough detail but suspect other countries were implicated too. In those cases they're not in thrall to the US, they're simply responding according to their own interests. * For European countries not specifically mentioned, why would any government antagonise the US when they're probably doing similar things themselves. * Let's not kid ourselves what the Russians are really doing. This is basically trolling on an international government scale. Putin certainly doesn't believe Snowdon is a freedom fighter, and his actions around support for Snowdon are hypocritical in the extreme given the sorts of activities Russia are almost certainly engaged in themselves. It's unrealistic to assume any government will support Snowdon as a matter of principal. They'll do so if it is popular enough with the people of their country but to me at least this doesn't feel like something that your average person is going to get worked up about compared to more domestic issues such as jobs, the cost of living and Kim Kardashian's ass.
• mariuolo 12y ago
  What about China?