12 ms·

Russia extends Snowden residency by three years

207 points by graeham 12y ago

junto 12y ago
I lol'ed at this one: "Accordingly, Edward Snowden was given a three-year residence permit," which will allow him to move about freely and travel abroad, Mr Kucherena said. He can "travel abroad". Where exactly? The Crimea is probably the safest place he could travel to at present!
- viach 12y ago
  There is nothing about the travel safety in quote you provided
  - junto 12y ago
    No, but that was my point. Snowden cannot safely fly anywhere without risking a sudden and abrupt rendition to the US. He cannot risk flying. The Bolivian incident showed just how powerful the US is when it comes to Snowden and flying. They forced down a presidential jet for god's sake! They were willing to risk a massive diplomatic incident and outcry (toned down) by doing so. He could travel by boat somewhere quietly, but (in my opinion) countries that have offered him some degree of asylum, such as Bolivia, Cuba and Venezuela are not stable or strong enough to oppose the will of the United States of America. If I was Snowden I couldn't imagine anything worse than landing in Bolivia, only to find that two years later a pro-US president miraculously wins the election. The US-CIA have a rather impressive record of subverting elections in South and Central America, so he would be a fool to risk it. Therefore, he is confined to Russia until Russia finds a reason to become the USA's best friend. He can travel overland to any country that is pro-Russia and protected by Russia. That's about it. Most of them are (ex)war zones. Considering the current geo-politics, that scenario is highly unlikely. The status quo is likely to remain, as long as oil, gas, and other natural resources are fought over by the world's major league countries. The US has little (in comparison) natural resources, whilst Russia has more than any other country. Long term, the power scales will tip. The only thing that may change that is a pro-USA Russian government. Oh, and pigs might fly over the Kremlim before that happens.
    - tomjen3 12y ago
      If any country is able to stand up to the US coup attempts, it has to be Cuba.
      - junto 12y ago
        Cuba is softening. Raul has made huge inroads, most recently allowing property ownership, which is huge step forward. Once Fidel dies I think things will start to change. Once Raul dies even more so. The US could rapidly turn Cuban relations around if they wanted something like say 'A Snowden'. He is probably safer in Russia than anywhere else, until he pisses them off. The smart money says he isn't about to do that of his own volution.
    - JasonIpswitch 12y ago
      If he's lucky, the US will end up at odds with China in a few years, giving him another large nation on his "side".
- rjzzleep 12y ago
  how about argentina for example? the non aligned movement has at least 120 member states, you'd think that there are one or two states that don't exactly agree with US foreign policy, eh?
  - higherpurpose 12y ago
    The problem is the US could try and stop his plane again when it passes above some US vassal country like UK, France, Spain, and so on. On the other hand, those countries would have to be pretty stupid to do that right now to Russia and force Putin's hand into a war (regardless of their chances of winning I think we can agree a war in Europe would be bad for all parties).
    - skrause 12y ago
      Would he have to fly through Europe? Isn't a direct flight from the eastern end of Russia over the Pacific possible as well?
      - phantom784 12y ago
        A great circle rotue from eastern Russia to South America would fly over the US - probably the last thing Snowden wants to do. http://i.imgur.com/ScOhPcc.gif http://i.imgur.com/ScOhPcc.gif
    - saalweachter 12y ago
      Is there this problem for a boat? Granted, a boat trip is longer, which is more time for things to (be made to) go wrong, but if a ship is traveling through international waters, are there any grounds for another country to board it and seize its passengers? (With a follow up: is there a sea route between Russia and Friendly Country X which doesn't pass through waters claimed by another country?)
      - icebraining 12y ago
        if a ship is traveling through international waters, are there any grounds for another country to board it and seize its passengers? Legal grounds? Does it matter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid
- DanBC 12y ago
  > He can "travel abroad". Some non-Russians who visit Russia need an exit visa. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/exit-visa.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/exit-visa.asp ------ My original post was getting heavily downvoted, even after the first edit. Here it is, with the first edit. I've ROT13d it to stop people down-voting the (now corrected) mistake. Fbzr angvbaf erdhver gurve pvgvmraf gb trg crezvffvba gb yrnir gur pbhagel. Ehffvn vf bar bs gurfr pbhagevrf. RQVG: V jbeqrq guvf ernyyl onqyl. Ehffvn hfrq gb erdhver vgf pvgvmraf gb trg rkvg ivfnf. Ohg Ehffvn qbrf fgvyy erdhver aba-pvgvmraf gb unir rkvg ivfnf. uggc://jjj.vairfgbcrqvn.pbz/grezf/r/rkvg-ivfn.nfc
  - lazymf 12y ago
    "Russia is one of these countries." Not true.
  - grepz 12y ago
    That is incorrect. The only thing you have to have is foreign passport, as everywhere else. The only exception if you work for government and have some sort of security clearance.
    - qnr 12y ago
      just in case someone misunderstands your post: in Russia, passport for international travel is called "foreign" passport to disambiguate it from the internal ID, which is also called "passport".
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - paddyoloughlin 12y ago
    Possibly it refers to him being allowed to _return_ to Russia if he travels abroad.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    It used to be like that for all citizens. But that practice has been abolished quite a while ago, if you have a valid passport and you're not on a list of 'persons of interest' you can leave the country like everywhere else. But you are right in Snowdens case, since foreigners resident in Russia need an 'exit visum' to be allowed to do trips abroad, and clearly Snowden is one of those.
- theklub 12y ago
  Cuba?
- ekianjo 12y ago
  It would be safer not to fly over Ukraine though. You never know, missiles pop up unexpectedly these days.
  - traevesty 12y ago
    That would be a great way to incite war. No government is that stupid.
    - aestra 12y ago
      I believe the GP was referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- slowing13 12y ago
  One of the problems is that he has no valid passport. The US has cancelled his. So he cannot take a regular flight. Also, any country would need to proactively make an exception to their rules to have him enter their territory, welcoming the wrath of the US administration.
  - gpvos 12y ago
    He has a residence permit that allows him to get past Russian exit controls and travel abroad, so I suppose he can get on a plane if he wishes. Getting off will be a problem, yes. He'd have to arrange something with Ecuador, Venezuela, Cuba, or the like.
    - phantom784 12y ago
      Airlines generally won't let you board unless you have the necessary documents to enter the destination country (e.g. a valid passport, a visa if required). In fact, countries will fine airlines for bringing passengers without the correct documents.
      - guard-of-terra 12y ago
        As far as my experience goes, the only thing that gets checked in russian airport (for resident) is your passport. Passport control doesn't know where you are heading nor they care, nobody else checks it. Maybe this is different matter for some flights (for example, to Israel or the USA), where the airline does additional checks on you, but you fly out to Europe and most other destinations unchecked (despite needing a visa to enter).
        grecy 12y ago
        ..and if your passport doesn't let you into country X, the airline won't let you board. i.e. Russians need a visa to enter country X, you don't have one.
        12y ago
- spacefight 12y ago
  The Crimea isn't "abroad" anymore if viewed from the russian side/perspective.
  - junto 12y ago
    I guess that was part of my joke!
- spacefight 12y ago
  The tragedy is here, that it appears that only the russian government is able to give Snowden a permit to stay. All other european nations have declined to host him, that is until now. So much about being independant countries...
  - nly 12y ago
    I imagine it's tricky for any EU member wanting to take him due to the EU having an extradition treaty with the US and the fact that Europe wide arrest warrants are a thing. It's worse for UK residents[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_treaty_of_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_trea...
    - spacefight 12y ago
      There is no arrest warrant, at least not a red alert from interpol. It's all done biliteral on a per country base.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
    A European country could give him a permit, the problem is that doing so would cause a massive diplomatic incident with the US, and most countries would rather not have to deal with that fuss. Russia (actually also European, just not EU European) had nothing to lose in that department, though.
  - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
    A few things on this: * Snowdon revealled much about GCHQ so you can't really expect the UK government to be any more supportive of his activities than the US one was. I don't know enough detail but suspect other countries were implicated too. In those cases they're not in thrall to the US, they're simply responding according to their own interests. * For European countries not specifically mentioned, why would any government antagonise the US when they're probably doing similar things themselves. * Let's not kid ourselves what the Russians are really doing. This is basically trolling on an international government scale. Putin certainly doesn't believe Snowdon is a freedom fighter, and his actions around support for Snowdon are hypocritical in the extreme given the sorts of activities Russia are almost certainly engaged in themselves. It's unrealistic to assume any government will support Snowdon as a matter of principal. They'll do so if it is popular enough with the people of their country but to me at least this doesn't feel like something that your average person is going to get worked up about compared to more domestic issues such as jobs, the cost of living and Kim Kardashian's ass.
- mariuolo 12y ago
  What about China?
lemming 12y ago
Good timing for Snowden - given that Russia is keen to retaliate for the sanctions right now they're probably pleased to piss the US off with this.
Grue3 12y ago
Great, now he has more time to sit on his ass and say nothing about the terribly oppressive Internet laws that Russian government enacts over its citizens. So brave.
- sekasi 12y ago
  Why do you expect him to be some sort of super hero that continuously risks his own life to expose information to the general public when you do nothing at all but whine on a forum? Got a bit of entitlement there do we?
  - Grue3 12y ago
    I'm just expecting him to not be a huge hypocrite as he was when he went on public record of praising Russia's commitment to human rights. [1] Apparently that only includes his rights, not us, regular people of Russia. I'm just doing my part of spreading awareness about his unforgivable hypocrisy. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-asylum-statement-human-rights-groups-un-venezuela-russia-moscow-airport-2013-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-asylum-stateme...
    - jarek 12y ago
      > I'm just doing my part of spreading awareness about his unforgivable hypocrisy. He did his part to spread awareness about U.S. government's unforgivable hypocrisy so I suppose that just about cancels out in terms of impact on the world, eh?
      - Grue3 12y ago
        That's the problem, nobody hears our plight and my voice is suppressed even on this very forum, while Snowden has all the media in the world to transmit his message. I don't. My message won't be heard because it doesn't concern the first world people. It's not a first world problem, so media doesn't give a shit about it, and Snowden doesn't give a shit about it either.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- Grue3 12y ago
  I'm sure Russia Today will report it as soon as it happens, haha.
- doe88 12y ago
  Not sure what you're suggesting, but if you're wondering why Snowden doesn't leak details on Russia regarding the Ukraine situation, I think the answer is really simple, Snowden leaked on NSA because he worked at NSA, thus he was in capacity to leak what he leaked, but as he certainly doesn't work for FSB he certainly doesn't have access to what you're asking for. What it would require though is a russian working for FSB, maybe inspired by Snowden, he might even safely ask for asylum to US after such a leak.
  - Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
    That would put the US in a fantastically difficult position - they can't be anti-Snowdon but pro someone doing it to another government.
    - rtpg 12y ago
      Of course you can, if what is revealed is considered more "whistleblower"-worthy (say, secret plan to kill babies). All whistleblowing is not the same.
    - __m 12y ago
      Torturing prisoners, invading iraq on false pretense, sending drones/soldiers into pakistan, spying on allies... I think the US wouldn't have problems handling that situation, that's peanuts.
sidcool 12y ago
This had to happen. With all the sanctions that the US and EU is slapping on Russia they had to do this. Independent of of the motives, I think this is good for Snowden. The enemy of enemy is a friend.
johnchristopher 12y ago
I suppose it's not unrelated to the russian embargo on European, Canadian, Australian, Norwegian and American food that was announced this morning and has yet to reach the US online news [0]. English translation [1]. [0] haven't seen anything yet on nytimes or wp. [1] http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Feurope%2Farticle%2F2014%2F08%2F07%2Fla-russie-decrete-un-embargo-total-sur-les-produits-alimentaires-europeens-et-americains_4468074_3214.html&sandbox=1 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http...
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  The embargo's probably just reacting to the various sanctions put on Russia by Ukrainian allies.
- dchamberlin 12y ago
  http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-bans-food-imports-from-canada-other-countries-for-1-year-1.2729821 http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-bans-food-imports-from-c...
- tomjen3 12y ago
  Unlikely to be related. Europe just embargoed Russia hard, those counter embargoes are their answer (it will hit them harder than us, but it still sucks).
  - kovrik 12y ago
    Russian here. The bad thing is that embargoes (and counter embargoes) hit ordinary people hard, not politicians. Prices have increased by ~15% since January (and will increase more because of new embargoes). Many idiotic laws has been adopted. Other countries hate us. And so on. Russia is now isolated from civilized world. And our government escalates this isolation. I'm going to migrate to Australia/New Zealand/USA etc. But now it feels much more difficult to move to another country.
    - kackontent 12y ago
huhtenberg 12y ago
The more I look at this, the more I am becoming convinced that Ukraine was a retaliation for Snowden getting a shelter in Russia. If you rewind back, the US reaction to Snowden staying in Russia was remarkably disproportionately mild. For an incident that made an unprecedented damage to the US image, it was very un-US like to just let it go. So tearing Ukraine away from Russia and pissing all over Russian political image fits right in. These two events just cannot not be connected.
- viraptor 12y ago
  > tearing Ukraine away from Russia and pissing all over Russian political image When did that happen? Did we watch completely opposite news for the last couple of months?
  - SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
    huhtenberg means this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution Right before Russia started attempting to tear Ukraine back again. With mixed results.
    - viraptor 12y ago
      Ok, I wouldn't call that "tearing Ukraine away from Russia", since it was basically standard negotiations gone crazy - that's what confused me.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  So, I gather that "tearing Ukraine away from Russia" means that you don't believe Ukraine is (or should be) a completely sovereign country, separate from Russia?
  - huhtenberg 12y ago
    No, I didn't mean that. More like trying to turn people who are life-long friends into blood enemies. It's an inherently same culture, similar language, mentality and drinking habits, same religion. If you look at the beginning of the rebel conflict, you'd see a great deal of resistance on both side to engage in active hostilities. On more than one occasion Ukrainian troops were talked into turning back. People don't want to fight, but they are being actively coalesced into it. There's no simmering feud, no age-long hatred, no real reasons for fighting except for high-level geopolitics, which is why I think that Ukraine's anti-president revolt didn't happen in isolation, but as a response to something that happened earlier, of which Snowden seems to be the simplest explanation.
justnotsure 12y ago
I think of Snowden as a naive young man. You know how all kids at some point want to be vegetarian not to 'hurt animals', believe in socialism, etc. The rumor has it that Snowden was under KGB influence (without noticing it) as early as his Swiss days. All these people watching RussiaTV, talking about US bankruptcy, horrible US wars, 911-truthers -- I bet dollars vs candies - this is all great KGB work on the US ground. Tea Party movement -- who benefits from their agenda? Russia, China, Iran, etc. Alex Jones, Ron Paul, etc -- with all they 'extreme right wing' views -- why they are on RussiaTV day and night? They are very useful KGB tools. They might be perfectly not aware of the harm they are doing, but that's what so great about KGB. They work and have success thanks to operating well on human element. CIA seems operate on the idea that their success comes from the technology. I.e. most extreme right wing parties in Europe are sponsored by Russia. Wouldn't be surprised at all to learn the same about US Tea Party. The ideology is great from Russian perspective: don't care about external affairs focus on the economy only. Close all the bases. Yeah, right, so we will wake up one day with Putin's Russia stretching across whole of Europe all the way to Portugal one day. And then what? Russia/USSR has worked extremely hard to infiltrate US colleges, universities and campuses with Marxism and socialism in the past. They have been doing it continuously since 1945 with great success. Because they knew that after years it will pay back big time. Like it does right now with Marxist President (product of US Universities) not doing anything about growing Russian threat. Never underestimate Russians intelligence and its influence on our elites.
sebkomianos 12y ago
Why are we discussing Snowden's ability to travel? I mean, does he need to travel? Is that essential to him continuing what he is doing?
- hack_edu 12y ago
  Freedom to travel is quite literally a declared Human Right. No need to question it's or why's.
  - trose 12y ago
    While I support his right to travel I think he would be foolish to exercise that right at the moment. If I'm traveling abroad and find myself on a flight with him I will politely exit the aircraft.

207 points by graeham 12y ago

junto 12y ago

I lol'ed at this one: "Accordingly, Edward Snowden was given a three-year residence permit," which will allow him to move about freely and travel abroad, Mr Kucherena said. He can "travel abroad". Where exactly? The Crimea is probably the safest place he could travel to at present!

viach 12y ago
There is nothing about the travel safety in quote you provided
- junto 12y ago
  No, but that was my point. Snowden cannot safely fly anywhere without risking a sudden and abrupt rendition to the US. He cannot risk flying. The Bolivian incident showed just how powerful the US is when it comes to Snowden and flying. They forced down a presidential jet for god's sake! They were willing to risk a massive diplomatic incident and outcry (toned down) by doing so. He could travel by boat somewhere quietly, but (in my opinion) countries that have offered him some degree of asylum, such as Bolivia, Cuba and Venezuela are not stable or strong enough to oppose the will of the United States of America. If I was Snowden I couldn't imagine anything worse than landing in Bolivia, only to find that two years later a pro-US president miraculously wins the election. The US-CIA have a rather impressive record of subverting elections in South and Central America, so he would be a fool to risk it. Therefore, he is confined to Russia until Russia finds a reason to become the USA's best friend. He can travel overland to any country that is pro-Russia and protected by Russia. That's about it. Most of them are (ex)war zones. Considering the current geo-politics, that scenario is highly unlikely. The status quo is likely to remain, as long as oil, gas, and other natural resources are fought over by the world's major league countries. The US has little (in comparison) natural resources, whilst Russia has more than any other country. Long term, the power scales will tip. The only thing that may change that is a pro-USA Russian government. Oh, and pigs might fly over the Kremlim before that happens.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    If any country is able to stand up to the US coup attempts, it has to be Cuba.
    - junto 12y ago
      Cuba is softening. Raul has made huge inroads, most recently allowing property ownership, which is huge step forward. Once Fidel dies I think things will start to change. Once Raul dies even more so. The US could rapidly turn Cuban relations around if they wanted something like say 'A Snowden'. He is probably safer in Russia than anywhere else, until he pisses them off. The smart money says he isn't about to do that of his own volution.
  - JasonIpswitch 12y ago
    If he's lucky, the US will end up at odds with China in a few years, giving him another large nation on his "side".
rjzzleep 12y ago
how about argentina for example? the non aligned movement has at least 120 member states, you'd think that there are one or two states that don't exactly agree with US foreign policy, eh?
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  The problem is the US could try and stop his plane again when it passes above some US vassal country like UK, France, Spain, and so on. On the other hand, those countries would have to be pretty stupid to do that right now to Russia and force Putin's hand into a war (regardless of their chances of winning I think we can agree a war in Europe would be bad for all parties).
  - skrause 12y ago
    Would he have to fly through Europe? Isn't a direct flight from the eastern end of Russia over the Pacific possible as well?
    - phantom784 12y ago
      A great circle rotue from eastern Russia to South America would fly over the US - probably the last thing Snowden wants to do. http://i.imgur.com/ScOhPcc.gif http://i.imgur.com/ScOhPcc.gif
  - saalweachter 12y ago
    Is there this problem for a boat? Granted, a boat trip is longer, which is more time for things to (be made to) go wrong, but if a ship is traveling through international waters, are there any grounds for another country to board it and seize its passengers? (With a follow up: is there a sea route between Russia and Friendly Country X which doesn't pass through waters claimed by another country?)
    - icebraining 12y ago
      if a ship is traveling through international waters, are there any grounds for another country to board it and seize its passengers? Legal grounds? Does it matter? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid
DanBC 12y ago
> He can "travel abroad". Some non-Russians who visit Russia need an exit visa. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/exit-visa.asp http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/exit-visa.asp ------ My original post was getting heavily downvoted, even after the first edit. Here it is, with the first edit. I've ROT13d it to stop people down-voting the (now corrected) mistake. Fbzr angvbaf erdhver gurve pvgvmraf gb trg crezvffvba gb yrnir gur pbhagel. Ehffvn vf bar bs gurfr pbhagevrf. RQVG: V jbeqrq guvf ernyyl onqyl. Ehffvn hfrq gb erdhver vgf pvgvmraf gb trg rkvg ivfnf. Ohg Ehffvn qbrf fgvyy erdhver aba-pvgvmraf gb unir rkvg ivfnf. uggc://jjj.vairfgbcrqvn.pbz/grezf/r/rkvg-ivfn.nfc
- lazymf 12y ago
  "Russia is one of these countries." Not true.
- grepz 12y ago
  That is incorrect. The only thing you have to have is foreign passport, as everywhere else. The only exception if you work for government and have some sort of security clearance.
  - qnr 12y ago
    just in case someone misunderstands your post: in Russia, passport for international travel is called "foreign" passport to disambiguate it from the internal ID, which is also called "passport".
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- paddyoloughlin 12y ago
  Possibly it refers to him being allowed to _return_ to Russia if he travels abroad.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  It used to be like that for all citizens. But that practice has been abolished quite a while ago, if you have a valid passport and you're not on a list of 'persons of interest' you can leave the country like everywhere else. But you are right in Snowdens case, since foreigners resident in Russia need an 'exit visum' to be allowed to do trips abroad, and clearly Snowden is one of those.
theklub 12y ago
Cuba?
ekianjo 12y ago
It would be safer not to fly over Ukraine though. You never know, missiles pop up unexpectedly these days.
- traevesty 12y ago
  That would be a great way to incite war. No government is that stupid.
  - aestra 12y ago
    I believe the GP was referring to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
slowing13 12y ago
One of the problems is that he has no valid passport. The US has cancelled his. So he cannot take a regular flight. Also, any country would need to proactively make an exception to their rules to have him enter their territory, welcoming the wrath of the US administration.
- gpvos 12y ago
  He has a residence permit that allows him to get past Russian exit controls and travel abroad, so I suppose he can get on a plane if he wishes. Getting off will be a problem, yes. He'd have to arrange something with Ecuador, Venezuela, Cuba, or the like.
  - phantom784 12y ago
    Airlines generally won't let you board unless you have the necessary documents to enter the destination country (e.g. a valid passport, a visa if required). In fact, countries will fine airlines for bringing passengers without the correct documents.
    - guard-of-terra 12y ago
      As far as my experience goes, the only thing that gets checked in russian airport (for resident) is your passport. Passport control doesn't know where you are heading nor they care, nobody else checks it. Maybe this is different matter for some flights (for example, to Israel or the USA), where the airline does additional checks on you, but you fly out to Europe and most other destinations unchecked (despite needing a visa to enter).
      - grecy 12y ago
        ..and if your passport doesn't let you into country X, the airline won't let you board. i.e. Russians need a visa to enter country X, you don't have one.
        12y ago
spacefight 12y ago
The Crimea isn't "abroad" anymore if viewed from the russian side/perspective.
- junto 12y ago
  I guess that was part of my joke!
spacefight 12y ago
The tragedy is here, that it appears that only the russian government is able to give Snowden a permit to stay. All other european nations have declined to host him, that is until now. So much about being independant countries...
- nly 12y ago
  I imagine it's tricky for any EU member wanting to take him due to the EU having an extradition treaty with the US and the fact that Europe wide arrest warrants are a thing. It's worse for UK residents[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_treaty_of_2003 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK%E2%80%93US_extradition_trea...
  - spacefight 12y ago
    There is no arrest warrant, at least not a red alert from interpol. It's all done biliteral on a per country base.
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  A European country could give him a permit, the problem is that doing so would cause a massive diplomatic incident with the US, and most countries would rather not have to deal with that fuss. Russia (actually also European, just not EU European) had nothing to lose in that department, though.
- Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
  A few things on this: * Snowdon revealled much about GCHQ so you can't really expect the UK government to be any more supportive of his activities than the US one was. I don't know enough detail but suspect other countries were implicated too. In those cases they're not in thrall to the US, they're simply responding according to their own interests. * For European countries not specifically mentioned, why would any government antagonise the US when they're probably doing similar things themselves. * Let's not kid ourselves what the Russians are really doing. This is basically trolling on an international government scale. Putin certainly doesn't believe Snowdon is a freedom fighter, and his actions around support for Snowdon are hypocritical in the extreme given the sorts of activities Russia are almost certainly engaged in themselves. It's unrealistic to assume any government will support Snowdon as a matter of principal. They'll do so if it is popular enough with the people of their country but to me at least this doesn't feel like something that your average person is going to get worked up about compared to more domestic issues such as jobs, the cost of living and Kim Kardashian's ass.
mariuolo 12y ago
What about China?

lemming 12y ago

Good timing for Snowden - given that Russia is keen to retaliate for the sanctions right now they're probably pleased to piss the US off with this.

Grue3 12y ago

Great, now he has more time to sit on his ass and say nothing about the terribly oppressive Internet laws that Russian government enacts over its citizens. So brave.

sekasi 12y ago
Why do you expect him to be some sort of super hero that continuously risks his own life to expose information to the general public when you do nothing at all but whine on a forum? Got a bit of entitlement there do we?
- Grue3 12y ago
  I'm just expecting him to not be a huge hypocrite as he was when he went on public record of praising Russia's commitment to human rights. [1] Apparently that only includes his rights, not us, regular people of Russia. I'm just doing my part of spreading awareness about his unforgivable hypocrisy. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-asylum-statement-human-rights-groups-un-venezuela-russia-moscow-airport-2013-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-asylum-stateme...
  - jarek 12y ago
    > I'm just doing my part of spreading awareness about his unforgivable hypocrisy. He did his part to spread awareness about U.S. government's unforgivable hypocrisy so I suppose that just about cancels out in terms of impact on the world, eh?
    - Grue3 12y ago
      That's the problem, nobody hears our plight and my voice is suppressed even on this very forum, while Snowden has all the media in the world to transmit his message. I don't. My message won't be heard because it doesn't concern the first world people. It's not a first world problem, so media doesn't give a shit about it, and Snowden doesn't give a shit about it either.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

Grue3 12y ago
I'm sure Russia Today will report it as soon as it happens, haha.
doe88 12y ago
Not sure what you're suggesting, but if you're wondering why Snowden doesn't leak details on Russia regarding the Ukraine situation, I think the answer is really simple, Snowden leaked on NSA because he worked at NSA, thus he was in capacity to leak what he leaked, but as he certainly doesn't work for FSB he certainly doesn't have access to what you're asking for. What it would require though is a russian working for FSB, maybe inspired by Snowden, he might even safely ask for asylum to US after such a leak.
- Tyrannosaurs 12y ago
  That would put the US in a fantastically difficult position - they can't be anti-Snowdon but pro someone doing it to another government.
  - rtpg 12y ago
    Of course you can, if what is revealed is considered more "whistleblower"-worthy (say, secret plan to kill babies). All whistleblowing is not the same.
  - __m 12y ago
    Torturing prisoners, invading iraq on false pretense, sending drones/soldiers into pakistan, spying on allies... I think the US wouldn't have problems handling that situation, that's peanuts.

sidcool 12y ago

This had to happen. With all the sanctions that the US and EU is slapping on Russia they had to do this. Independent of of the motives, I think this is good for Snowden. The enemy of enemy is a friend.

johnchristopher 12y ago

I suppose it's not unrelated to the russian embargo on European, Canadian, Australian, Norwegian and American food that was announced this morning and has yet to reach the US online news [0]. English translation [1]. [0] haven't seen anything yet on nytimes or wp. [1] http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Feurope%2Farticle%2F2014%2F08%2F07%2Fla-russie-decrete-un-embargo-total-sur-les-produits-alimentaires-europeens-et-americains_4468074_3214.html&sandbox=1 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http...

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
The embargo's probably just reacting to the various sanctions put on Russia by Ukrainian allies.
dchamberlin 12y ago
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-bans-food-imports-from-canada-other-countries-for-1-year-1.2729821 http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia-bans-food-imports-from-c...
tomjen3 12y ago
Unlikely to be related. Europe just embargoed Russia hard, those counter embargoes are their answer (it will hit them harder than us, but it still sucks).
- kovrik 12y ago
  Russian here. The bad thing is that embargoes (and counter embargoes) hit ordinary people hard, not politicians. Prices have increased by ~15% since January (and will increase more because of new embargoes). Many idiotic laws has been adopted. Other countries hate us. And so on. Russia is now isolated from civilized world. And our government escalates this isolation. I'm going to migrate to Australia/New Zealand/USA etc. But now it feels much more difficult to move to another country.
  - kackontent 12y ago

huhtenberg 12y ago

The more I look at this, the more I am becoming convinced that Ukraine was a retaliation for Snowden getting a shelter in Russia. If you rewind back, the US reaction to Snowden staying in Russia was remarkably disproportionately mild. For an incident that made an unprecedented damage to the US image, it was very un-US like to just let it go. So tearing Ukraine away from Russia and pissing all over Russian political image fits right in. These two events just cannot not be connected.

viraptor 12y ago
> tearing Ukraine away from Russia and pissing all over Russian political image When did that happen? Did we watch completely opposite news for the last couple of months?
- SideburnsOfDoom 12y ago
  huhtenberg means this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution Right before Russia started attempting to tear Ukraine back again. With mixed results.
  - viraptor 12y ago
    Ok, I wouldn't call that "tearing Ukraine away from Russia", since it was basically standard negotiations gone crazy - that's what confused me.
ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
So, I gather that "tearing Ukraine away from Russia" means that you don't believe Ukraine is (or should be) a completely sovereign country, separate from Russia?
- huhtenberg 12y ago
  No, I didn't mean that. More like trying to turn people who are life-long friends into blood enemies. It's an inherently same culture, similar language, mentality and drinking habits, same religion. If you look at the beginning of the rebel conflict, you'd see a great deal of resistance on both side to engage in active hostilities. On more than one occasion Ukrainian troops were talked into turning back. People don't want to fight, but they are being actively coalesced into it. There's no simmering feud, no age-long hatred, no real reasons for fighting except for high-level geopolitics, which is why I think that Ukraine's anti-president revolt didn't happen in isolation, but as a response to something that happened earlier, of which Snowden seems to be the simplest explanation.

justnotsure 12y ago

I think of Snowden as a naive young man. You know how all kids at some point want to be vegetarian not to 'hurt animals', believe in socialism, etc. The rumor has it that Snowden was under KGB influence (without noticing it) as early as his Swiss days. All these people watching RussiaTV, talking about US bankruptcy, horrible US wars, 911-truthers -- I bet dollars vs candies - this is all great KGB work on the US ground. Tea Party movement -- who benefits from their agenda? Russia, China, Iran, etc. Alex Jones, Ron Paul, etc -- with all they 'extreme right wing' views -- why they are on RussiaTV day and night? They are very useful KGB tools. They might be perfectly not aware of the harm they are doing, but that's what so great about KGB. They work and have success thanks to operating well on human element. CIA seems operate on the idea that their success comes from the technology. I.e. most extreme right wing parties in Europe are sponsored by Russia. Wouldn't be surprised at all to learn the same about US Tea Party. The ideology is great from Russian perspective: don't care about external affairs focus on the economy only. Close all the bases. Yeah, right, so we will wake up one day with Putin's Russia stretching across whole of Europe all the way to Portugal one day. And then what? Russia/USSR has worked extremely hard to infiltrate US colleges, universities and campuses with Marxism and socialism in the past. They have been doing it continuously since 1945 with great success. Because they knew that after years it will pay back big time. Like it does right now with Marxist President (product of US Universities) not doing anything about growing Russian threat. Never underestimate Russians intelligence and its influence on our elites.

sebkomianos 12y ago

Why are we discussing Snowden's ability to travel? I mean, does he need to travel? Is that essential to him continuing what he is doing?

hack_edu 12y ago
Freedom to travel is quite literally a declared Human Right. No need to question it's or why's.
- trose 12y ago
  While I support his right to travel I think he would be foolish to exercise that right at the moment. If I'm traveling abroad and find myself on a flight with him I will politely exit the aircraft.