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Not sure why the comments here are so negative. People make money from Twitch, and most of them have music playing in the background. You can't just take someon

by enneff 12y ago

Not sure why the comments here are so negative. People make money from Twitch, and most of them have music playing in the background. You can't just take someone else's work and use it to improve your own without expecting to compensate them. I hope that the policing of mainstream commercial music use will drive content creators to use music owned by small companies and independents. Twitch should do an integration with Bandcamp or something.

DavidBradbury 12y ago
While some people certainly don't think that Twitch should do anything at all, I think most people have a problem with how poorly it seems to be implemented thus far. False positives are the biggest thing that pisses me off about any system like this. Hurting legitimate content creators is not acceptable.
darkmighty 12y ago
Two counterpoints: 1) Often certain music is played simply as a "cultural reference" -- e.g. making fun of it, having it in the background shortly for dramatic or comical effect, and so on. I would think most classify as fair use; however removals will likely be irrevocable and done with parsimony. 2) Even if the broadcaster would like to give up some of his revenue for copyright, he won't be able to. It just doesn't make much economic sense for large brands to issue small licenses, yet it does make sense to go after small violators since they're allowed to do it en masse. The point is, viewers lose culturally and copyright holders don't actually gain anything.
- enneff 12y ago
  I don't see what we "lose culturally" by dropping the use of commercial music. There is a plethora of great, liberally-licensed great music out there.
  - superuser2 12y ago
    No, there really isn't, or advertisers wouldn't be buying public performance rights anymore.
    - enneff 12y ago
      Advertisers either want a catchy song people already know, or don't want to attribute the artist. Neither are a problem for streamers.
  - darkmighty 12y ago
    Some examples of emblematic music that are often used as specific references: Chariots of Fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJzcUvS_NU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJzcUvS_NU Wagner's March of the Valkyries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRU1AJsXN1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRU1AJsXN1g Gonna Fly Now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyvQKTg4T5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyvQKTg4T5o You can't really replace those.
    - enneff 12y ago
      I'll be happy to never hear either the first or third examples ever again. It shouldn't be a big deal to find public domain performances of the out-of-copyright Wagner piece.
comex 12y ago
Aside from the difficulty of actually obtaining a license, and the false positives and generally heavy-handed implementation... the biggest issue is probably that in-game music and even ambient sound is being targeted, making it impossible to actually carry out the purpose of the site (game streaming) for some games.
ubernostrum 12y ago
I hope that the policing of mainstream commercial music use will drive content creators to use music owned by small companies and independents. Copyright law is complex and nuanced. Systems like YouTube's and now Twitch's are simple and blunt, and are fundamentally incapable of effectively doing what they're meant to do. Ustream ran into that when it broadcast the Hugo awards two years ago; its own "protection" system kicked in and killed the live stream because the show, like every awards show, included clips of an award winner... which were detected as copyrighted and blunt-object smacked off the internet because the system can only detect matching signatures, and lacks the ability to recognize matching unlicensed non-fairly-used signatures. There are already reports coming in of videos being muted on Twitch because the built-in, licensed soundtrack of the game itself is audible in videos of someone playing the game, and it seems from another comment in this thread[1] that one of Twitch's own official broadcasts got muted because the system could only recognize "copyrighted", not "copyrighted and used legally". This is a doomed project, and it could doom Twitch, and if you really do care about artists being compensated, you should not be in favor of things which make that cause seem so odious and stupid. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8145381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8145381
HelloLarias 12y ago
A lot of games, the game themselves, use popular music as part of the soundtrack. So streaming those games can get the entire video muted.

by enneff 12y ago

DavidBradbury 12y ago

While some people certainly don't think that Twitch should do anything at all, I think most people have a problem with how poorly it seems to be implemented thus far. False positives are the biggest thing that pisses me off about any system like this. Hurting legitimate content creators is not acceptable.

darkmighty 12y ago

Two counterpoints: 1) Often certain music is played simply as a "cultural reference" -- e.g. making fun of it, having it in the background shortly for dramatic or comical effect, and so on. I would think most classify as fair use; however removals will likely be irrevocable and done with parsimony. 2) Even if the broadcaster would like to give up some of his revenue for copyright, he won't be able to. It just doesn't make much economic sense for large brands to issue small licenses, yet it does make sense to go after small violators since they're allowed to do it en masse. The point is, viewers lose culturally and copyright holders don't actually gain anything.

enneff 12y ago
I don't see what we "lose culturally" by dropping the use of commercial music. There is a plethora of great, liberally-licensed great music out there.
- superuser2 12y ago
  No, there really isn't, or advertisers wouldn't be buying public performance rights anymore.
  - enneff 12y ago
    Advertisers either want a catchy song people already know, or don't want to attribute the artist. Neither are a problem for streamers.
- darkmighty 12y ago
  Some examples of emblematic music that are often used as specific references: Chariots of Fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJzcUvS_NU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYJzcUvS_NU Wagner's March of the Valkyries https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRU1AJsXN1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRU1AJsXN1g Gonna Fly Now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyvQKTg4T5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyvQKTg4T5o You can't really replace those.
  - enneff 12y ago
    I'll be happy to never hear either the first or third examples ever again. It shouldn't be a big deal to find public domain performances of the out-of-copyright Wagner piece.

comex 12y ago

Aside from the difficulty of actually obtaining a license, and the false positives and generally heavy-handed implementation... the biggest issue is probably that in-game music and even ambient sound is being targeted, making it impossible to actually carry out the purpose of the site (game streaming) for some games.

ubernostrum 12y ago

I hope that the policing of mainstream commercial music use will drive content creators to use music owned by small companies and independents. Copyright law is complex and nuanced. Systems like YouTube's and now Twitch's are simple and blunt, and are fundamentally incapable of effectively doing what they're meant to do. Ustream ran into that when it broadcast the Hugo awards two years ago; its own "protection" system kicked in and killed the live stream because the show, like every awards show, included clips of an award winner... which were detected as copyrighted and blunt-object smacked off the internet because the system can only detect matching signatures, and lacks the ability to recognize matching unlicensed non-fairly-used signatures. There are already reports coming in of videos being muted on Twitch because the built-in, licensed soundtrack of the game itself is audible in videos of someone playing the game, and it seems from another comment in this thread[1] that one of Twitch's own official broadcasts got muted because the system could only recognize "copyrighted", not "copyrighted and used legally". This is a doomed project, and it could doom Twitch, and if you really do care about artists being compensated, you should not be in favor of things which make that cause seem so odious and stupid. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8145381 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8145381

HelloLarias 12y ago

A lot of games, the game themselves, use popular music as part of the soundtrack. So streaming those games can get the entire video muted.