6 ms·

An immigrant from Turkey turned Greek yogurt into an American snack food (2013)

49 points by sizzle 12y ago

enraged_camel 12y ago
I'm a Turkish immigrant as well, and I read this story from time to time for inspiration. What Ulukaya has accomplished is truly remarkable. For us hacker types, I think the most relevant tidbit is this: Making the product, which Ulukaya registered under the name Euphrates, was the easy part. It was much harder to run the factory, hire the right people, handle sales and marketing, and secure wholesale buyers. This is similar to what you hear from startup founders: making the product is relatively easy compared to the "business stuff" such as hiring, marketing, sales and so on. What is not clear -- to me, at least -- is that did the making of the product simply appear easy because it was enjoyable, and vice versa? This part is interesting too: In 2005, Ulukaya received a piece of junk mail, from a local real-estate company, advertising the sale of a yogurt-and-cheese factory that had closed down. He went to see it. I don't know if this is proof that junk mail is common because it works. Maybe it is. But think about how much sheer luck was involved here. He got some junk mail, which he happened to browse (out of boredom?) or maybe he was just staring at it while thinking about something else and it suddenly piqued his interest. He then leveraged that luck by actually going to see the factory. If he had not, then Chobani would probably still be a small-time producer of yogurt today.
- nsgf 12y ago
  Yea, they accomplished a lot but are now facing multiple lawsuits from the Greek dairy company FAGE. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=el&sl=el&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naftemporiki.gr%2Ffinance%2Fstory%2F838018%2Fbretania-dikastiki-niki-tis-fage-sti-diamaxi-gia-to-elliniko-giaourti https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=el&sl=el&tl=en&u=h...
  - jballanc 12y ago
    Hah! Oh man...this is so classic I just had to laugh. In case you weren't aware, the rivalry between Turks and Greeks has been going on for literally centuries. What makes this all the more laughable is that the word "yogurt" is Turkish. However, since the Greeks have done a better job (in recent history at least) of exporting their culture to the west, Chobani's sales would probably plummet if they relabeled as "Turkish Yogurt", even though that would be a more accurate term for it in more ways than one.
    - nsgf 12y ago
      Actually, i am located in Athens. The rivalry is indeed a major factor, spanning centuries. FAGE bases all these lawsuits on E.U. schemes: PDO (protected designation of origin), PGI (protected geographical indication) and TSG (traditional speciality guaranteed)
      - jballanc 12y ago
        Howdy neighbor! (I can literally see Greece from my front porch.)
        nsgf 12y ago
        Hello guy with impeccable vision!
      - _delirium 12y ago
        The lawsuits are mainly in the U.S., aren't they? As far as I know, in the EU the situation isn't really disputed, since origin labeling is stricter. Here in Denmark there are three common categories of labeling for this style of yogurt: 1) "Greek yogurt", which implies it's imported from Greece; 2) "Turkish yogurt", which implies it's imported from Turkey; and 3) "strained" or "Greek-style" or "Turkish-style" yogurt, which doesn't imply a geographic origin. Fage oddly has nearly zero market share in Denmark though, despite Greek yogurt having a good market share. The dominant brand is the Danish brand "Nostimo", part of the Danton Trading group run by a Greek-Danish entrepreneur. The yogurt is all sourced from Greece, but the operation is run mainly out of Aarhus.
        nsgf 12y ago
        Yes, it seems to be U.S.-centric, although the most recent one was in the U.K.
    - mturmon 12y ago
      ...of exporting their culture... Har.
    - 12y ago
afterburner 12y ago
I really wish this had happened to Labneh instead of Greek Yogurt. Same basic type of food, a thicker yogurt, but it's a little thicker and drier than Greek yogurt and has a different taste, one I vastly prefer. Add a touch of olive oil and it makes an amazing dip with some Lebanese style pita bread. Someone take this and run with it, I would like to be able to find Labneh in all grocery stores, next to the Greek yogurt.
- adamnemecek 12y ago
  Or to quark cheese. It's similar to Greek yogurt but has much more protein.
  - Mandatum 12y ago
    Have made my own before following this recipe, turned out really well: http://fresh.co.nz/homemade-quarg-or-quark/ http://fresh.co.nz/homemade-quarg-or-quark/
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Why not you? You've sold me on it already. There's nobody better than someone who loves something to develop a product.
_delirium 12y ago
The narrative here seems contrary to how I remember it, though I'm no analyst of the grocery sector. I don't live in the U.S. anymore, but in the 2000s, I remember Greek yogurt being popular, but don't remember this company Chobani. There were basically two kinds of "Greek yogurt": the Greek brand Fage was the higher-priced "authentic" brand, and then Trader Joe's, Safeway, etc. had lower-priced "Greek-style" brands that differed partly by origin and partly by the use of thickening agents like pectin. Chobani's dominance from my memory seems like a more recent thing, after the style had been established. But that may vary regionally as well; I lived in California.
- hayksaakian 12y ago
  In my experience, greek yoghurt was sold as a commodity, ingredient, and niche ethnic product before. You bought it in Large containers and usually it was either generic, or whichever ONE name brand they sold (at the normal grocery stores). Nowadays, it's a popular consumer product sold in individual size containers, with fruit and other kinds of flavors. (Seattle)
  - _delirium 12y ago
    At least in CA circa the mid 2000s, it was sold in individual snack-size containers, as you describe. Several formats, one of which was a two-part container with yogurt on one side and honey on the other [1]. The store brands tended to prefer a more "American-style" approach with pre-mixed fruit/yogurt in one compartment [2]. Some arbitrarily chosen photos via Google image search: [1] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HVyAxMPVFG0/T-mq0CkyhsI/AAAAAAAAEg8/1Ux_F-z9YAs/s1600/Fage+Total+2%2525+Greek+Yogurt+with+Honey+Close.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HVyAxMPVFG0/T-mq0CkyhsI/AAAAAAAAEg... [2] http://greedygirlinlasvegas.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tj-greek-yogurt1.jpg http://greedygirlinlasvegas.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tj-g...
zwieback 12y ago
I really liked Chobani for a while but they seem to have real quality issues and after throwing out a few too many cups I switched back to Fage, which I seems to be able to control their cultures better. Also good: Tillamook greek yogurt - go Oregon!
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
lobster_johnson 12y ago
I love yogurt, but Chobani is probably the worst example of a good yogurt product. Sugary and yucky, just like the awful stuff made by Dannon and Yoplait. I guess I don't understand American tastes; yogurt is supposed to be tangy, not sweet. I don't mind there being sweet varieties, but it's hard to find anything that isn't full of sugar, or is "low fat" or "no fat" (meaning, again, more sugar) or "creamline" (meaning unappetizingly slimy).
- SeanLuke 12y ago
  ??? This isn't an American taste thing: such yogurt styles are directly from Europe. Switzerland, Italy, France, UK, and Ireland all produce yogurt in a form immediately recognizable to Americans. For example, just yesterday I was in a grocery store in Italy buying yogurt, and had two options: exactly like Yoplait, or greek style (Fage etc.)
  - lobster_johnson 12y ago
    I am having much less of a problem finding unsweetened (ie., fruit only) yogurt in many other countries, although I will agree that the problem is not unique to the US. For a direct US-to-Europe comparison, when I'm in Germany, my favourite non-plain yogurt to buy is Müller's "Joghurt mit der Ecke" with granola [1]. It's 118 kcal and contains 11.3g carbs. It exists in the US [2], but with a different formulation: The US version is 210 kcal with a carbohydrate content of 32g, of which 22g is sugar. It tastes disgustingly sweet, for me it's inedible. In the US, yogurt is almost exclusively sweetened, with a sugar content of typically about 10-20%; most of the sugar doesn't come from the fruit, but from pure sugar and fruit juice. The yogurts are almost entirely "no fat", which from a flavour perspective is awful; fat has been replaced with sugar, making it less healthy. In my local supermarkets in NYC, the only whole-milk yogurts available are plain yogurts from brands like Stonyfield. [1] http://www.muellermilch.de/fileadmin/documents/infos/info_naehrwerte.pdf http://www.muellermilch.de/fileadmin/documents/infos/info_na... [2] http://www.mullerquaker.com/products/corner/crunchy-granola-yogurt http://www.mullerquaker.com/products/corner/crunchy-granola-...

49 points by sizzle 12y ago

I'm a Turkish immigrant as well, and I read this story from time to time for inspiration. What Ulukaya has accomplished is truly remarkable. For us hacker types, I think the most relevant tidbit is this: Making the product, which Ulukaya registered under the name Euphrates, was the easy part. It was much harder to run the factory, hire the right people, handle sales and marketing, and secure wholesale buyers. This is similar to what you hear from startup founders: making the product is relatively easy compared to the "business stuff" such as hiring, marketing, sales and so on. What is not clear -- to me, at least -- is that did the making of the product simply appear easy because it was enjoyable, and vice versa? This part is interesting too: In 2005, Ulukaya received a piece of junk mail, from a local real-estate company, advertising the sale of a yogurt-and-cheese factory that had closed down. He went to see it. I don't know if this is proof that junk mail is common because it works. Maybe it is. But think about how much sheer luck was involved here. He got some junk mail, which he happened to browse (out of boredom?) or maybe he was just staring at it while thinking about something else and it suddenly piqued his interest. He then leveraged that luck by actually going to see the factory. If he had not, then Chobani would probably still be a small-time producer of yogurt today.

nsgf 12y ago
Yea, they accomplished a lot but are now facing multiple lawsuits from the Greek dairy company FAGE. https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=el&sl=el&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naftemporiki.gr%2Ffinance%2Fstory%2F838018%2Fbretania-dikastiki-niki-tis-fage-sti-diamaxi-gia-to-elliniko-giaourti https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=el&sl=el&tl=en&u=h...
- jballanc 12y ago
  Hah! Oh man...this is so classic I just had to laugh. In case you weren't aware, the rivalry between Turks and Greeks has been going on for literally centuries. What makes this all the more laughable is that the word "yogurt" is Turkish. However, since the Greeks have done a better job (in recent history at least) of exporting their culture to the west, Chobani's sales would probably plummet if they relabeled as "Turkish Yogurt", even though that would be a more accurate term for it in more ways than one.
  - nsgf 12y ago
    Actually, i am located in Athens. The rivalry is indeed a major factor, spanning centuries. FAGE bases all these lawsuits on E.U. schemes: PDO (protected designation of origin), PGI (protected geographical indication) and TSG (traditional speciality guaranteed)
    - jballanc 12y ago
      Howdy neighbor! (I can literally see Greece from my front porch.)
      - nsgf 12y ago
        Hello guy with impeccable vision!
    - _delirium 12y ago
      The lawsuits are mainly in the U.S., aren't they? As far as I know, in the EU the situation isn't really disputed, since origin labeling is stricter. Here in Denmark there are three common categories of labeling for this style of yogurt: 1) "Greek yogurt", which implies it's imported from Greece; 2) "Turkish yogurt", which implies it's imported from Turkey; and 3) "strained" or "Greek-style" or "Turkish-style" yogurt, which doesn't imply a geographic origin. Fage oddly has nearly zero market share in Denmark though, despite Greek yogurt having a good market share. The dominant brand is the Danish brand "Nostimo", part of the Danton Trading group run by a Greek-Danish entrepreneur. The yogurt is all sourced from Greece, but the operation is run mainly out of Aarhus.
      - nsgf 12y ago
        Yes, it seems to be U.S.-centric, although the most recent one was in the U.K.
  - mturmon 12y ago
    ...of exporting their culture... Har.
  - 12y ago

afterburner 12y ago

I really wish this had happened to Labneh instead of Greek Yogurt. Same basic type of food, a thicker yogurt, but it's a little thicker and drier than Greek yogurt and has a different taste, one I vastly prefer. Add a touch of olive oil and it makes an amazing dip with some Lebanese style pita bread. Someone take this and run with it, I would like to be able to find Labneh in all grocery stores, next to the Greek yogurt.

adamnemecek 12y ago
Or to quark cheese. It's similar to Greek yogurt but has much more protein.
- Mandatum 12y ago
  Have made my own before following this recipe, turned out really well: http://fresh.co.nz/homemade-quarg-or-quark/ http://fresh.co.nz/homemade-quarg-or-quark/
anigbrowl 12y ago
Why not you? You've sold me on it already. There's nobody better than someone who loves something to develop a product.

_delirium 12y ago

The narrative here seems contrary to how I remember it, though I'm no analyst of the grocery sector. I don't live in the U.S. anymore, but in the 2000s, I remember Greek yogurt being popular, but don't remember this company Chobani. There were basically two kinds of "Greek yogurt": the Greek brand Fage was the higher-priced "authentic" brand, and then Trader Joe's, Safeway, etc. had lower-priced "Greek-style" brands that differed partly by origin and partly by the use of thickening agents like pectin. Chobani's dominance from my memory seems like a more recent thing, after the style had been established. But that may vary regionally as well; I lived in California.

hayksaakian 12y ago
In my experience, greek yoghurt was sold as a commodity, ingredient, and niche ethnic product before. You bought it in Large containers and usually it was either generic, or whichever ONE name brand they sold (at the normal grocery stores). Nowadays, it's a popular consumer product sold in individual size containers, with fruit and other kinds of flavors. (Seattle)
- _delirium 12y ago
  At least in CA circa the mid 2000s, it was sold in individual snack-size containers, as you describe. Several formats, one of which was a two-part container with yogurt on one side and honey on the other [1]. The store brands tended to prefer a more "American-style" approach with pre-mixed fruit/yogurt in one compartment [2]. Some arbitrarily chosen photos via Google image search: [1] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HVyAxMPVFG0/T-mq0CkyhsI/AAAAAAAAEg8/1Ux_F-z9YAs/s1600/Fage+Total+2%2525+Greek+Yogurt+with+Honey+Close.jpg http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HVyAxMPVFG0/T-mq0CkyhsI/AAAAAAAAEg... [2] http://greedygirlinlasvegas.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tj-greek-yogurt1.jpg http://greedygirlinlasvegas.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/tj-g...

zwieback 12y ago

I really liked Chobani for a while but they seem to have real quality issues and after throwing out a few too many cups I switched back to Fage, which I seems to be able to control their cultures better. Also good: Tillamook greek yogurt - go Oregon!

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

lobster_johnson 12y ago

I love yogurt, but Chobani is probably the worst example of a good yogurt product. Sugary and yucky, just like the awful stuff made by Dannon and Yoplait. I guess I don't understand American tastes; yogurt is supposed to be tangy, not sweet. I don't mind there being sweet varieties, but it's hard to find anything that isn't full of sugar, or is "low fat" or "no fat" (meaning, again, more sugar) or "creamline" (meaning unappetizingly slimy).

SeanLuke 12y ago
??? This isn't an American taste thing: such yogurt styles are directly from Europe. Switzerland, Italy, France, UK, and Ireland all produce yogurt in a form immediately recognizable to Americans. For example, just yesterday I was in a grocery store in Italy buying yogurt, and had two options: exactly like Yoplait, or greek style (Fage etc.)
- lobster_johnson 12y ago
  I am having much less of a problem finding unsweetened (ie., fruit only) yogurt in many other countries, although I will agree that the problem is not unique to the US. For a direct US-to-Europe comparison, when I'm in Germany, my favourite non-plain yogurt to buy is Müller's "Joghurt mit der Ecke" with granola [1]. It's 118 kcal and contains 11.3g carbs. It exists in the US [2], but with a different formulation: The US version is 210 kcal with a carbohydrate content of 32g, of which 22g is sugar. It tastes disgustingly sweet, for me it's inedible. In the US, yogurt is almost exclusively sweetened, with a sugar content of typically about 10-20%; most of the sugar doesn't come from the fruit, but from pure sugar and fruit juice. The yogurts are almost entirely "no fat", which from a flavour perspective is awful; fat has been replaced with sugar, making it less healthy. In my local supermarkets in NYC, the only whole-milk yogurts available are plain yogurts from brands like Stonyfield. [1] http://www.muellermilch.de/fileadmin/documents/infos/info_naehrwerte.pdf http://www.muellermilch.de/fileadmin/documents/infos/info_na... [2] http://www.mullerquaker.com/products/corner/crunchy-granola-yogurt http://www.mullerquaker.com/products/corner/crunchy-granola-...