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I actually had a discussion with someone who holds a masters of law in China and recently started attending law school in the US for their JD. The issue of inte

I actually had a discussion with someone who holds a masters of law in China and recently started attending law school in the US for their JD. The issue of intellectual property came up when we were discussing possible career paths after graduation and I was quite astounded when she told me that she didn't think the industrial espionage was that big of a deal and couldn't be costing US companies that much money. I was very surprised by the dismissive attitude toward IP. I'm all for more sane patent laws but outright source code theft seems to be far past the line... Is this attitude common among educated Chinese or was my experience just a one-off anecdote?

analyst74 12y ago
Traditionally, there is no such thing as "stealing knowledge", and to the extreme, there is old saying about stealing books is not real theft. IP law was enacted quite recently, heck, even the rule of law itself (as opposed to rule of men) was fairly recent transformation of the society. I feel this wikipedia entry describe it fairly well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_culture#Chinese_legal_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_culture#Chinese_legal_cu.... So yes, IP and patents carry no where near the level of respect as United States or similar countries.
- jobu 12y ago
  There was a great article on Ars Technica years ago (decade+) that talked about weak property law in general and intellectual property in particular being a necessary part for developing countries to succeed. As they grow the value of all property increases to the point where property law becomes much more important and strict. It was a really good read, but it doesn't seem to be available online anymore. Also, from the article: "In the 1870s, American textile companies would send employees to work in British factories. They would take notes on textile equipment and bring back the information. The Russians and East Germans stole U.S. computer and chip designs during the Cold War."
- rayiner 12y ago
  IP law of some form has existed about as long as the technology to engage in mass copying has existed. The idea that it's wrong to steal other peoples' ideas is not just something you have to be a lawyer to appreciate. One of my family friends is a musician, and I was surprised that when I talked to him recently (after many years), he expressed concern about how easy the internet is making it to rip off peoples' work.
BryanBeshore 12y ago
I know that Guanxi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi - is embedded in the Chineese culture, and it seems possible that this would play right into the web of Guanxi. Another reference to this, as it relates to Guanxi and corporate espenioage would be: http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/china_guanxi_and_corporate_security#axzz39eFu48AU http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/china_guanxi_and_corporate_se...
autokad 12y ago
if you were astounded, perhaps you should read more about 'mandate of heaven' that permeates chinese culture, and think about why its totally ok to do something like IP theft on grand / brazen scales and think nothing of it. its one of the many reasons china industrialized so late and also why anyone trying to compare business practices in korea/japan to china must have no idea about the cultures.
- arjie 12y ago
  What is the mechanism by which IP theft restrains industrialization? Surely if you're stealing all your technology you can grow rapidly without needing R&D.
  - autokad 12y ago
    it goes beyond just IP theft, but western societies are heavily influenced by the golden rule. this makes business a much friendlier arena. in MOH however, its a very unfriendly environment. sure, chinese company X does great by stealing US company Y's technology, but they exist among other companies like them. any advancement or innovation they try to make will be stolen by their chinese competitors for example.
- jbattle 12y ago
  I thought the mandate of heaven 'theory' was similar to the divine right to rule in european political science. The emperor (of China) has the right to rule given by some supernatural force. This right is assumed to be in force BUT natural catastrophes (floods, etc) are demonstrations that heaven or whoever has revoked the right. How does this apply in a business context?

analyst74 12y ago

Traditionally, there is no such thing as "stealing knowledge", and to the extreme, there is old saying about stealing books is not real theft. IP law was enacted quite recently, heck, even the rule of law itself (as opposed to rule of men) was fairly recent transformation of the society. I feel this wikipedia entry describe it fairly well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_culture#Chinese_legal_culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_culture#Chinese_legal_cu.... So yes, IP and patents carry no where near the level of respect as United States or similar countries.

jobu 12y ago
There was a great article on Ars Technica years ago (decade+) that talked about weak property law in general and intellectual property in particular being a necessary part for developing countries to succeed. As they grow the value of all property increases to the point where property law becomes much more important and strict. It was a really good read, but it doesn't seem to be available online anymore. Also, from the article: "In the 1870s, American textile companies would send employees to work in British factories. They would take notes on textile equipment and bring back the information. The Russians and East Germans stole U.S. computer and chip designs during the Cold War."
rayiner 12y ago
IP law of some form has existed about as long as the technology to engage in mass copying has existed. The idea that it's wrong to steal other peoples' ideas is not just something you have to be a lawyer to appreciate. One of my family friends is a musician, and I was surprised that when I talked to him recently (after many years), he expressed concern about how easy the internet is making it to rip off peoples' work.

BryanBeshore 12y ago

I know that Guanxi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanxi - is embedded in the Chineese culture, and it seems possible that this would play right into the web of Guanxi. Another reference to this, as it relates to Guanxi and corporate espenioage would be: http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/china_guanxi_and_corporate_security#axzz39eFu48AU http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/china_guanxi_and_corporate_se...

autokad 12y ago

if you were astounded, perhaps you should read more about 'mandate of heaven' that permeates chinese culture, and think about why its totally ok to do something like IP theft on grand / brazen scales and think nothing of it. its one of the many reasons china industrialized so late and also why anyone trying to compare business practices in korea/japan to china must have no idea about the cultures.

arjie 12y ago
What is the mechanism by which IP theft restrains industrialization? Surely if you're stealing all your technology you can grow rapidly without needing R&D.
- autokad 12y ago
  it goes beyond just IP theft, but western societies are heavily influenced by the golden rule. this makes business a much friendlier arena. in MOH however, its a very unfriendly environment. sure, chinese company X does great by stealing US company Y's technology, but they exist among other companies like them. any advancement or innovation they try to make will be stolen by their chinese competitors for example.
jbattle 12y ago
I thought the mandate of heaven 'theory' was similar to the divine right to rule in european political science. The emperor (of China) has the right to rule given by some supernatural force. This right is assumed to be in force BUT natural catastrophes (floods, etc) are demonstrations that heaven or whoever has revoked the right. How does this apply in a business context?