4 ms·

Computer Games Better Than Medication in Treating Elderly Depression

70 points by hachiya 12y ago

heroku 12y ago
I remember doing nothing but playing computer games in my deepest depression states.
- jclos 12y ago
  I think it is mainly dependent on the person. I love computer games and I spent my share of allnighters on them, but when faced with depression I don't even want to play.
- bithush 12y ago
  I am the complete opposite in that my depression made it impossible for me to enjoy any kind of video games (and tv shows, movies and music).
  - ivanca 12y ago
    That's a more severe depression. I been there (symptoms of a chronic disease), unfortunately.
    - bithush 12y ago
      Indeed. I was diagnosed 5 years ago (age 25) with recurrent major depressive disorder (aka chronic depression) along with PTSD (due to childhood abuse I only started to deal with in my twenties) and generalised anxiety disorder. While the anxiety problems were horrible the worst was chronic insomnia. I have taken part in a number of sleep studies in NHS and private hospitals and two universities as my sleep disorders were rated as "most severe" in that I would sleep for less than an hour per day over a 14 day period which led to all kinds of horrible things such as hallucinations and false memories. For a while I was diagnosed schizophrenic but that was a misdiagnosis as it was simply (ha!) down to exhaustion. I was on 50mg of Zolpidem (Ambien) a night but even that couldn't shut my brain off. Thankfully my depression and other issues are much better now although I still find it close to impossible to sit down and play a game, watch a movie or read a book for some reason :( It is a great shame as I used to love playing video games as a kid/teen. It is horrible not being able to enjoy something you used to love. It is almost like that part of my brain is been switch off and I can't find the on switch anymore.
      - ivanca 12y ago
        Thanks for speaking up. Doctors work between their boundaries, that includes giving medication based on symptoms profiling and comparing those with previous cases or just their medical training, unfortunately that sometimes backfires against understanding some individual case and therefore its treatments and diagnostic. You have to read for yourself everything about your disorder, your symptoms, and its treatment. I would suggest you to responsibly try two medications, one is Duloxetine, the symptoms you describe (about the sleeping part)are very similar to mine, I coulnd't sleep, I couldn't sit and watch a movie even when trying to force myself to do so, and worst yet, I couldn't enjoy music, and I used to listen music all day long. I would wake up at night sweating for no reason. It may or it may not work for you but is surely worth a try. Just start with one single 30 mg at night, if you see improvements a couple of months later you can start using 60mg; of course if you don't see improvements just stop taking it. If you are taking any anti-depressants better read first about any possible reaction between that and Duloxetine. The other medication that helps my brain be very focused is Modafinil, lost of focus is one of the symptoms of my chronic disease (Fibromialgy) and it helps greatly on that matter, it also helps a bit with the mood, it is usually taken by people with narcolepsy, a common sleep disorder. Is also taken by healthy people who needs to stay awake for long periods, such as combat pilots and overnight workers.
  - scipol 12y ago
    Evidence that what we awkwardly label 'depression' is some constellation of conditions. Interesting that playing video games could be used in some kind of diagnostic context to separate out these sub-types.
dschiptsov 12y ago
Why should a medication which is designed to lift the symptoms but has nothing to do with the causes be better than a simplest CBT, even if it is mere distraction?
- shard972 12y ago
  Because people make good money off the medications.
- scipol 12y ago
  Money aside, because it's the symptoms that bother people, not the cause. Most people just want relief.
  - dschiptsov 12y ago
    Ignoring of the causes is called ignorance - the cause of suffering.)
raphman_ 12y ago
Original article: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140805/ncomms5579/full/ncomms5579.html http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140805/ncomms5579/full/nco... It seems like they are currently preparing a study comparing the efficacy of computer games and general computer work with regard to reducing elderly depression: http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01979289 http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01979289
neals 12y ago
Oncoming depression, burnout and stress. Let me play for 2 days and I'm good as new.
RyanMcGreal 12y ago
"In a study of 11 older patients" Is that a big enough sample to draw any conclusions?
- ivanca 12y ago
  Studies are expensive, we wouldn't get anything done if we wait for all researches to be properly funded.
- hellrich 12y ago
  It could be, if the effect is strong enough.
DanBC 12y ago
SPARX is a game from New Zealand designed to teach basic CBT techniques to teens. http://www.beckinstituteblog.org/2012/04/a-computerized-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-intervention-for-adolescents/ http://www.beckinstituteblog.org/2012/04/a-computerized-cogn... There's a niche in the market.
pinkyand 12y ago
there's also this research about casual games seducing depression and anxiety: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123495/Study_Finds_Casual_Games_Reduce_Depression_Anxiety_Symptoms.php http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123495/Study_Finds_Casual... The key question is why:is it only the distraction ,because its known that distraction is helpful against depression , or is also something else ? and how best is to design such games ?
pessimizer 12y ago
You would expect this, because SSRIs perform no better than placebo except in cases of extreme depression. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157 http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157
- Symmetry 12y ago
  That paper just says that the effects of SSRIs scale with with the severity of depression, averaging an effect size of .2 greater than a placebo for people whose HAM-D is less than 23. That's a small effect, smaller than the placebo effect, but it's statistically significant and we're talking p < .0001 here. ALso, a HAMD of 23 can be called anything from "very severe" to "moderate" depending on who you ask. But part of the reason you see such a small response is that according to [1] some people have significant positive responses to SSRIs but the average is brought down by people who have significant negative responses to SSRIs. For more information about SSRIs and the controversy around them than you could possibly need, see here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-yo... [1]http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1107437 http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=11074...
izzydata 12y ago
2 hours a week? I guess I'm set for a few hundred years with of mental work. Although if I had to guess this would probably be more related to elderly people doing mental work that stimulates new connections. If a young person today who had been playing games their whole life were to try it when they were old it probably wouldn't have the same effect because they would be so used to those mental stimulation. Just a thought from a person who knows nothing about this field.
- scipol 12y ago
  The improvement effect might be smaller but perhaps persisting in game playing would keep those pathways from atrophying. Plus, I imagine by the time the first video game cohort (today's late 30s?) are in their 70s that the way we interact with and play computer games may not be anywhere near the same physical experience. If by 2050 I don't have a holodeck I'm going to be pissed.
ollysb 12y ago
I'd be interested to know what their lifestyle is, are they spending the majority of their lives watching insipid TV? (That would certainly be enough to depress me...)
Aardwolf 12y ago
Good to know that when I'm old, I'll be spending my time gaming again :) APM will be less I guess, but so will that of my opponents.
clueless123 12y ago
Oh boy.. can't wait till my 12 yrs old kid hears about this! * So much for my "stop playing games all day long" ranting..
mathattack 12y ago
Outstanding potential for technology! Who says all these games are just mental candy?

70 points by hachiya 12y ago

heroku 12y ago

I remember doing nothing but playing computer games in my deepest depression states.

jclos 12y ago
I think it is mainly dependent on the person. I love computer games and I spent my share of allnighters on them, but when faced with depression I don't even want to play.
bithush 12y ago
I am the complete opposite in that my depression made it impossible for me to enjoy any kind of video games (and tv shows, movies and music).
- ivanca 12y ago
  That's a more severe depression. I been there (symptoms of a chronic disease), unfortunately.
  - bithush 12y ago
    Indeed. I was diagnosed 5 years ago (age 25) with recurrent major depressive disorder (aka chronic depression) along with PTSD (due to childhood abuse I only started to deal with in my twenties) and generalised anxiety disorder. While the anxiety problems were horrible the worst was chronic insomnia. I have taken part in a number of sleep studies in NHS and private hospitals and two universities as my sleep disorders were rated as "most severe" in that I would sleep for less than an hour per day over a 14 day period which led to all kinds of horrible things such as hallucinations and false memories. For a while I was diagnosed schizophrenic but that was a misdiagnosis as it was simply (ha!) down to exhaustion. I was on 50mg of Zolpidem (Ambien) a night but even that couldn't shut my brain off. Thankfully my depression and other issues are much better now although I still find it close to impossible to sit down and play a game, watch a movie or read a book for some reason :( It is a great shame as I used to love playing video games as a kid/teen. It is horrible not being able to enjoy something you used to love. It is almost like that part of my brain is been switch off and I can't find the on switch anymore.
    - ivanca 12y ago
      Thanks for speaking up. Doctors work between their boundaries, that includes giving medication based on symptoms profiling and comparing those with previous cases or just their medical training, unfortunately that sometimes backfires against understanding some individual case and therefore its treatments and diagnostic. You have to read for yourself everything about your disorder, your symptoms, and its treatment. I would suggest you to responsibly try two medications, one is Duloxetine, the symptoms you describe (about the sleeping part)are very similar to mine, I coulnd't sleep, I couldn't sit and watch a movie even when trying to force myself to do so, and worst yet, I couldn't enjoy music, and I used to listen music all day long. I would wake up at night sweating for no reason. It may or it may not work for you but is surely worth a try. Just start with one single 30 mg at night, if you see improvements a couple of months later you can start using 60mg; of course if you don't see improvements just stop taking it. If you are taking any anti-depressants better read first about any possible reaction between that and Duloxetine. The other medication that helps my brain be very focused is Modafinil, lost of focus is one of the symptoms of my chronic disease (Fibromialgy) and it helps greatly on that matter, it also helps a bit with the mood, it is usually taken by people with narcolepsy, a common sleep disorder. Is also taken by healthy people who needs to stay awake for long periods, such as combat pilots and overnight workers.
- scipol 12y ago
  Evidence that what we awkwardly label 'depression' is some constellation of conditions. Interesting that playing video games could be used in some kind of diagnostic context to separate out these sub-types.

dschiptsov 12y ago

Why should a medication which is designed to lift the symptoms but has nothing to do with the causes be better than a simplest CBT, even if it is mere distraction?

shard972 12y ago
Because people make good money off the medications.
scipol 12y ago
Money aside, because it's the symptoms that bother people, not the cause. Most people just want relief.
- dschiptsov 12y ago
  Ignoring of the causes is called ignorance - the cause of suffering.)

raphman_ 12y ago

Original article: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140805/ncomms5579/full/ncomms5579.html http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140805/ncomms5579/full/nco... It seems like they are currently preparing a study comparing the efficacy of computer games and general computer work with regard to reducing elderly depression: http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01979289 http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01979289

neals 12y ago

Oncoming depression, burnout and stress. Let me play for 2 days and I'm good as new.

RyanMcGreal 12y ago

"In a study of 11 older patients" Is that a big enough sample to draw any conclusions?

ivanca 12y ago
Studies are expensive, we wouldn't get anything done if we wait for all researches to be properly funded.
hellrich 12y ago
It could be, if the effect is strong enough.

DanBC 12y ago

SPARX is a game from New Zealand designed to teach basic CBT techniques to teens. http://www.beckinstituteblog.org/2012/04/a-computerized-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-intervention-for-adolescents/ http://www.beckinstituteblog.org/2012/04/a-computerized-cogn... There's a niche in the market.

pinkyand 12y ago

there's also this research about casual games seducing depression and anxiety: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123495/Study_Finds_Casual_Games_Reduce_Depression_Anxiety_Symptoms.php http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/123495/Study_Finds_Casual... The key question is why:is it only the distraction ,because its known that distraction is helpful against depression , or is also something else ? and how best is to design such games ?

pessimizer 12y ago

You would expect this, because SSRIs perform no better than placebo except in cases of extreme depression. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157 http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157

Symmetry 12y ago
That paper just says that the effects of SSRIs scale with with the severity of depression, averaging an effect size of .2 greater than a placebo for people whose HAM-D is less than 23. That's a small effect, smaller than the placebo effect, but it's statistically significant and we're talking p < .0001 here. ALso, a HAMD of 23 can be called anything from "very severe" to "moderate" depending on who you ask. But part of the reason you see such a small response is that according to [1] some people have significant positive responses to SSRIs but the average is brought down by people who have significant negative responses to SSRIs. For more information about SSRIs and the controversy around them than you could possibly need, see here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-yo... [1]http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1107437 http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=11074...

izzydata 12y ago

2 hours a week? I guess I'm set for a few hundred years with of mental work. Although if I had to guess this would probably be more related to elderly people doing mental work that stimulates new connections. If a young person today who had been playing games their whole life were to try it when they were old it probably wouldn't have the same effect because they would be so used to those mental stimulation. Just a thought from a person who knows nothing about this field.

scipol 12y ago
The improvement effect might be smaller but perhaps persisting in game playing would keep those pathways from atrophying. Plus, I imagine by the time the first video game cohort (today's late 30s?) are in their 70s that the way we interact with and play computer games may not be anywhere near the same physical experience. If by 2050 I don't have a holodeck I'm going to be pissed.

ollysb 12y ago

I'd be interested to know what their lifestyle is, are they spending the majority of their lives watching insipid TV? (That would certainly be enough to depress me...)

Aardwolf 12y ago

Good to know that when I'm old, I'll be spending my time gaming again :) APM will be less I guess, but so will that of my opponents.

clueless123 12y ago

Oh boy.. can't wait till my 12 yrs old kid hears about this! * So much for my "stop playing games all day long" ranting..

mathattack 12y ago

Outstanding potential for technology! Who says all these games are just mental candy?