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Yep, most HN readers are probably exempt due to the "computer employee" exemption: > Computer Employees: Those who work in computer-related occupations, for ex

Yep, most HN readers are probably exempt due to the "computer employee" exemption: > Computer Employees: Those who work in computer-related occupations, for example computer systems analysts, computer programmers and computer software engineers, are exempt as long as their work involves a combination of primary duties that include applying systems analysis techniques and procedures, consulting with users to determine specifications, and designing, developing, analyzing, creating, testing and modifying computer systems and programs. Edit: State laws sometimes offer more protection, e.g. California, for non-high salary professionals.

gnarbarian 12y ago
I wonder what (if there is one) the logical reason behind this exemption is.
- dpritchett 12y ago
  Reading the DoL's advisory on this [1] suggests that it all hinges on the concept of blue-collar vs. white-collar or production vs. staff employees. I can only imagine that the 'production' employees are seen as more interchangeable and largely incapable of having multiplicative effects on the company's business model. A programmer or accountant who's getting a raw deal can find a better job (where better means pay commensurate with contributions), but a tier 1 help desk tech or factory worker will likely have a lower ceiling on possible pay to begin with, and (more) trouble finding a way to secure compensation that scales with corporate success. It is surprisingly hard to find explanations for this - the web is choked with articles explaining who's exempt and who's not, but not so many with justifications or reasoning or historical context. [1]: http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/preamble_final.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/preamble_final.htm
- walterbell 12y ago
  One reason is lack of organized lobbying by IT/engineers: http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html Another round of policy discussion is underway: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/politics/obama-will-seek-broad-expansion-of-overtime-pay.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/politics/obama-will-see...
  - logicallee 12y ago
    (Edited to be less sure.) A third reason might be the argument from market power stemming from the fact that if you can personally create $10 million of cold hard cash value using nothing but a bit of time in front of a computer, and with no long-term detrimental effects on you of any kind, then the fact that you are minting money creates a seller's market (just as there will always be a seller's market for legal currency), and it [might be an argument for] allowing you to work whatever hours you wanted - or sleep in the office, be offered legal drugs, whatever. if you didn't like it you could go somewhere else. it's very different if you were cleaning staff at any of the same companies. they "need" more protection than you do! Edit: from your responses it is clear that many people it applies to should also be owed overtime. I was just throwing out one "logical reason". In addition I've thought of the crazy hours residents and doctors put in - so that high earnings / value add might not guarantee that much market power, if the conditions are the same at all hospitals. on the other hand much of computer labor is absolutely in a seller's market (from the point of view of the employee) and clearly does not need the same level of protection. there is a lot in many workplaces that a "computer professional" wouldn't put up with for a second.
    - krschultz 12y ago
      Nonexempt employees can still work crazy hours, they just get overtime for it.
    - serge2k 12y ago
      That's all the more reason to demand overtime pay.
      - logicallee 12y ago
        Yes, to demand it. My point is you can demand whatever you want. (Unlike the cleaning staff, who can "be shown the door if that's how they feel about it.") It's not like being exempt means an employer is not allowed to offer you overtime pay. They can still do it. You can still demand it.
- rmc 12y ago
  Companies would like some free labour, and to not have to pay for free overtime.
- superuser2 12y ago
  It's intended to encourage growth by making employment cheaper.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
warfangle 12y ago
But debugging and support is nonexempt - I wonder where, say, "production operations" falls in this, if you're on-call 24/7, and primarily put out fires caused by developer stupidity?

gnarbarian 12y ago

I wonder what (if there is one) the logical reason behind this exemption is.

dpritchett 12y ago
Reading the DoL's advisory on this [1] suggests that it all hinges on the concept of blue-collar vs. white-collar or production vs. staff employees. I can only imagine that the 'production' employees are seen as more interchangeable and largely incapable of having multiplicative effects on the company's business model. A programmer or accountant who's getting a raw deal can find a better job (where better means pay commensurate with contributions), but a tier 1 help desk tech or factory worker will likely have a lower ceiling on possible pay to begin with, and (more) trouble finding a way to secure compensation that scales with corporate success. It is surprisingly hard to find explanations for this - the web is choked with articles explaining who's exempt and who's not, but not so many with justifications or reasoning or historical context. [1]: http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/preamble_final.htm http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/preamble_final.htm
walterbell 12y ago
One reason is lack of organized lobbying by IT/engineers: http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html Another round of policy discussion is underway: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/politics/obama-will-seek-broad-expansion-of-overtime-pay.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/us/politics/obama-will-see...
- logicallee 12y ago
  (Edited to be less sure.) A third reason might be the argument from market power stemming from the fact that if you can personally create $10 million of cold hard cash value using nothing but a bit of time in front of a computer, and with no long-term detrimental effects on you of any kind, then the fact that you are minting money creates a seller's market (just as there will always be a seller's market for legal currency), and it [might be an argument for] allowing you to work whatever hours you wanted - or sleep in the office, be offered legal drugs, whatever. if you didn't like it you could go somewhere else. it's very different if you were cleaning staff at any of the same companies. they "need" more protection than you do! Edit: from your responses it is clear that many people it applies to should also be owed overtime. I was just throwing out one "logical reason". In addition I've thought of the crazy hours residents and doctors put in - so that high earnings / value add might not guarantee that much market power, if the conditions are the same at all hospitals. on the other hand much of computer labor is absolutely in a seller's market (from the point of view of the employee) and clearly does not need the same level of protection. there is a lot in many workplaces that a "computer professional" wouldn't put up with for a second.
  - krschultz 12y ago
    Nonexempt employees can still work crazy hours, they just get overtime for it.
  - serge2k 12y ago
    That's all the more reason to demand overtime pay.
    - logicallee 12y ago
      Yes, to demand it. My point is you can demand whatever you want. (Unlike the cleaning staff, who can "be shown the door if that's how they feel about it.") It's not like being exempt means an employer is not allowed to offer you overtime pay. They can still do it. You can still demand it.
rmc 12y ago
Companies would like some free labour, and to not have to pay for free overtime.
superuser2 12y ago
It's intended to encourage growth by making employment cheaper.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

warfangle 12y ago

But debugging and support is nonexempt - I wonder where, say, "production operations" falls in this, if you're on-call 24/7, and primarily put out fires caused by developer stupidity?