18 ms·

I don't get it. So if I'm working overtime for my employer, a lot, I'm entitled to money? I get that my work after hours is essentially "free" labor. But I was

• bicx 12y ago
  There are exempt salaried workers and nonexempt salaried workers. The exemption refers to overtime pay. The LinkedIn employees were nonexempt (so they were owed payment for overtime).
• romanovcode 12y ago
  Sorry to say but if you're working overtime for absolutely free you're not very smart person.
  • EpicEng 12y ago
    Right, because it's always that easy to just say "F U boss, I'm outa here!" Oh, wait, I have to feed my kid and pay the rent this month... oops.
    • NietTim 12y ago
      Don't know about you, but if I have to work overtime it is because of bad planning.
    • romanovcode 12y ago
      I don't know about you but for me - yes, it's that easy. I don't remember ever working overtime without payment. Granted I am not afraid to get fired so there is no fear involved. However I never got fired in my life.
      • EpicEng 12y ago
        Well, you may be shocked to hear this, but not everyone is in the exact same situation as you.
  • allsystemsgo 12y ago
    Well, I work overtime usually for the first 6-12 months when I first start my job. I expect to be compensated for the hours I work overtime after reviews. Should that not happen, I will assume the firm doesn't care if I move on after 2-3 years for opportunities with better compensation. It is what it is. I'm married and have financial obligations. That said, who's to say I don't moonlight and make extra cash that way? ;-)
  • jimmaswell 12y ago
    I agree. It's ridiculous how socially accepted free overtime is around here.
• krschultz 12y ago
  Some excerpts that help explain it: The FLSA requires that covered, nonexempt employees be paid at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour for all hours worked, plus time and one-half their regular hourly rates for hours worked beyond 40 per week. With few exceptions, to be exempt an employee must (a) be paid at least $23,600 per year ($455 per week), and (b) be paid on a salary basis, and also (c) perform exempt job duties. These requirements are outlined in the FLSA Regulations (promulgated by the U.S. Department of Labor). Most employees must meet all three "tests" to be exempt. An employee who meets the salary level tests and also the salary basis tests is exempt only if s/he also performs exempt job duties. These FLSA exemptions are limited to employees who perform relatively high-level work. Whether the duties of a particular job qualify as exempt depends on what they are. Job titles or position descriptions are of limited usefulness in this determination. (A secretary is still a secretary even if s/he is called an "administrative assistant," and the chief executive officer is still the CEO even if s/he is called a janitor.) It is the actual job tasks that must be evaluated, along with how the particular job tasks "fit" into the employer's overall operations. http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html Generally managers, engineers, and most salaried office jobs are "exempt". Lately more focus has gone towards defining who exactly is an exempt vs non-exempt salaried employee in white collar office jobs.
  • jahewson 12y ago
    Yep, most HN readers are probably exempt due to the "computer employee" exemption: > Computer Employees: Those who work in computer-related occupations, for example computer systems analysts, computer programmers and computer software engineers, are exempt as long as their work involves a combination of primary duties that include applying systems analysis techniques and procedures, consulting with users to determine specifications, and designing, developing, analyzing, creating, testing and modifying computer systems and programs. Edit: State laws sometimes offer more protection, e.g. California, for non-high salary professionals.
    • gnarbarian 12y ago
      I wonder what (if there is one) the logical reason behind this exemption is.
• Semaphor 12y ago
  Wait, if you work overtime in the U.S. you do not get compensated for it?
  • georgemcbay 12y ago
    It depends on your job and other factors, but sometimes the answer is, sadly, yes. My mom is a soon-to-retire nurse and she was a salaried employee who, if she worked overtime, made either time-and-a-half (1.5x) or double-time (2x) pay depending upon the situation. But software developers, for all of the talk of ninjas and rockstars and whatnot, are a socially low and easily exploited class that make decisions against our own interests (laughing off the idea of unions, etc); so we often work up to 1.5 to 2 times (60-80 hours is very common) over our official salaried hours for free.
    • baddox 12y ago
      You certainly don't seem to think very highly of software developers.
      • georgemcbay 12y ago
        For whatever it is worth, I am a software developer and I'm as guilty as any of working 80 hour weeks, especially in the first 10 years of my career. I'm just older now (41 this year) and while I still work as a software developer and have avoided the management route (since I still love coding), I've become somewhat jaded on the business end of things. Don't get me wrong, I think in certain situations (eg. developer is a founder or has meaningful preferential equity in a company) that working very long hours toward a goal without directly being paid for those hours is perfectly acceptable; but I cringe when I think of how many hours of sleep I missed in my younger days for a pat on the back or token meaningless non-monetary perks when I was a common-stock-holding pleb being constantly diluted out of equity in even the moderately successful companies.
    • throwawayh3d8 12y ago
      Sounds bitter. Software developers are certainly not regarded as socially lower than a nurse, quite the opposite (at least in Europe). But I _do_ agree that, compared to many other professions prestiges is low. I also agree that it's time for unions, although simply owing the company collectively may work better. More importantly, people should not allow themselves to be exploited and realise that doing so is just as bad for them as for their fellow developers.
• yulaow 12y ago
  As a EU citizen I hoped to see a /s under your post. I do not want to be rude but here it is obvious that if you work overtime you must be compensated and also very well (usually 1,5-2 times more than regular hours). And not only it, in some states, like mine, you can work only a limited amount of hours (6 or 8, I don't remember well) overtime per week, otherwise it is illegal.
  • johnchristopher 12y ago
    My thoughts, exactly. I wished that for specific topics such as this one where the geographical location of a poster is highly relevant we would post our locations or have a switch in our profile to get a better outlook of where people are coming from.
  • vvvv 12y ago
    In the UK, you typically sign a waiver, which says you may be require to work more than the statutory 37.5 hours per week.
    • jameshart 12y ago
      UK implementation of the EU Working Time Directive allows employees to waive their rights. Mot of Europe doesn't have that model.
    • stickydink 12y ago
      It's 48 hours. You can be legally expected to work anything up to that without overtime pay, as a salaried employee. And penalties for requiring employees to work over that, apply only when this is exceeded when it's averaged over a 17 week period. But you're right, many fields pretty much bring up the 48-hour overtime exemption contract to you on day 1, many temp jobs, or things like catering/bar-work require you to sign one of these.
  • rmc 12y ago
    The USA is a bit of an odd outlier in the developed world when it comes to employee rights.
  • 12y ago
• pessimizer 12y ago
  You don't understand that if you're working overtime, you're entitled to overtime pay? Where do you think the term comes from?
• fred_durst 12y ago
  The best part about it is when you think about what your hourly rate would be if you made $80,000 and worked 60 hours a week with 20 of them being time and a half overtime. Comes out to around $22/hr base rate. You start doing that around $50k and you are around the same pay rate as an overnight stocker at a grocery with couple years on the job.
  • jonathansizz 12y ago
    Really? I know a couple of guys who work nights at Wal-Mart, and they make around $10/hr.
    • fred_durst 12y ago
      My back of the napkin put $50K @ 60 hours put at just above $13/hr base rate. Taking a look at Glassdoor, my guess would be several years of small raises would get you pretty close. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/night-stocker-salary-SRCH_KO0,13.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/night-stocker-salary-SRCH_... I would assume it depends on the part of the country you are in as well.
      • Chronic29 12y ago
        Good thing I work 30 hour weeks
      • jonathansizz 12y ago
        60 hours/week x 50 weeks/year = 3,000 hours/year. $50,000/3,000 hours = $16.67/hour. In any case, I don't believe that these companies will give overtime. In fact, your glassdoor link doesn't show any company paying over $30,000/year to their night workers, with the average being around $25,000.
        • fred_durst 12y ago
          That is correct. That is why I said it was the "base rate". The example was to illustrate what the employment opportunity would look like if an employer of a developer had to pay an hourly rate with overtime pay, instead of being able to pay them as an exempt salaried employee. Assuming the position required 60 hour work weeks(as a non trivial amount of developer positions do) this is what the two would look like for exactly the same final pay. With salary one can say: $50,000/year With hourly one would say: $13/hr + overtime While being the exact same pay, it looks quite a bit different. No?
• dinkumthinkum 12y ago
  I'm bemused by your surprise that that people would be entitled to "money" (the very thought) for working. :)