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"For about a year, I've had a paid open-source job, but this really didn't work out well - I became increasingly stressed and depressed, and I wasn't able to fi

"For about a year, I've had a paid open-source job, but this really didn't work out well - I became increasingly stressed and depressed, and I wasn't able to find enough time and energy to work on the things that I really cared about" Sorry, but that's life. I leave work and am often too tired to hit the gym, much less come home and work on my side projects, but I find a way to do it (usually) and save money little by little. It's tough. For someone with his skillset he shouldn't have trouble finding a job elsewhere. Who wouldn't like to have others pay their expenses while they take a year off to work on what they REALLY want to work on? I'd LOVE to quit my job and move to southeast asia to work on things like coding, writing, design, etc....but I'm not about to set up a kickstarter to get others to foot the bill.

joepie91_ 12y ago
It's really quite simple - if I'm not doing something I'm enjoying, I'm not going to churn out a good end result. That's just inherent to the creative process. My priorities lie with helping as many people as possible as much as possible, not with increasing the balance of a corporate bank account, so that result is unacceptable to me. It's very easy to shout "just get a job!", but the reality is that the moral repercussions of "just getting a job" are far bigger than asking people for voluntary(!) contributions if/when they appreciate what you're doing. My income is dependent on whether people appreciate what I do, not on whether I tick abstract checkboxes on a list of technical requirements that may very well not serve anyone. I consider that the better option of the two.
- TheMagicHorsey 12y ago
  Not sure if its efficient for someone else to work a job they don't like, for the man, so as to fund you, so you can work a job you like, not for the man. The moral repercussions as you call them, do not disappear if you transfer the burden onto someone else. I think you should figure out how to monetize your work and support yourself. Or, if that isn't possible, work some job (not necessarily in tech) to raise enough to feed yourself as you work. But I hope your kickstarter is successful in any case. Seems to me you would use the money in a more useful way than most.
  - joepie91_ 12y ago
    > Not sure if its efficient for someone else to work a job they don't like, for the man, so as to fund you, so you can work a job you like, not for the man. > The moral repercussions as you call them, do not disappear if you transfer the burden onto someone else. They don't disappear, but they certainly do change. Money flows regardless; the question is to where it flows. If you look at things as a trade-off between energy and social benefit, in simplified form for the sake of illustration... Scenario A: Dave has a well-paid job, and let's say he's hypothetically able and willing to fund me entirely. He spends $17k of his yearly $100k on keeping me afloat. There is now one person-year of energy going to a corporate purpose, and one person-year of energy (mine) going into a socially beneficial purpose. Scenario B: Dave has the same well-paid job, but spends $17k on booze and other 'disposable income' things instead. He's not going to be paid any less. I have my own paid job, that pays $17k per year. There are now two person-years of energy going into a corporate purpose, and none into a socially beneficial purpose. Dave does not work any less hours, and his contribution to corporate purposes is not lessened, but mine has increased. Consider it as me trying to 'pick up the scraps' of money that others don't really need (and that they are willing to put towards a socially beneficial purpose), so that I can spend my person-years on something that benefits everybody, not just a corporate purpose. I would agree with your point if I were asking people to get a paid job for the purpose of supporting me (although you could then have a more interesting discussion about how the productivity differences change the equation), but as it stands I'm just piggybacking on corporate work that is already being done. The terminology I used above may not be perfectly accurate, but I've tried to keep it simple for readability. > I think you should figure out how to monetize your work and support yourself. Non-voluntary "monetizing" just introduces attached strings and distorted priorities, no matter how ethically okay the particular form of income is. It would not allow me to do what I do now. That's why I'm doing this fundraiser - which, conceptually, is just a form of voluntary monetization. > Or, if that isn't possible, work some job (not necessarily in tech) to raise enough to feed yourself as you work. I've tried that (see also my passage on the campaign page about the open-source job), and it didn't work out well at all. I had raised these concerns to my employer prior to taking on the job, and was told that they believed they could make it work, but it ended up not working after all, more or less as predicted (and I'm not blaming my employer for that). > But I hope your kickstarter is successful in any case. Seems to me you would use the money in a more useful way than most. Thanks!
- kadabra9 12y ago
  It really is quite simple --- find work that you enjoy. This should be pretty easy for someone with your skillset. Just because you "want to help people" or have some moral objection to working for the man does not mean you're entitled to have others fund your dream lifestyle. There are millions of talented people (some of which I'm sure have noble intentions) out there who don't like their jobs, or at the end of the day are not producing a good result due to dissatisfaction with their jobs. If they want to take a year off, they work more, pick up side projects, cut expenses, and gradually save for it. Is that route really "morally" worse than asking others to pay for it?
  - joepie91_ 12y ago
    > It really is quite simple --- find work that you enjoy. I already did. That's what I'm doing now. That I'm not employed by somebody or running a commercial operation, doesn't mean it's somehow not 'work'. The parameters are just different. > Just because you "want to help people" or have some moral objection to working for the man does not mean you're entitled to have others fund your dream lifestyle. Who said anything about entitlement? This is a fundraiser that you can voluntarily contribute to. It doesn't even have any material perks for that reason. I'm just constantly amazed at the lengths to which people go to try and paint accepting voluntary contributions as something immoral, while involuntary (that is, forced) payment is apparently perfectly fine. > There are millions of talented people (some of which I'm sure have noble intentions) out there who don't like their jobs, or at the end of the day are not producing a good result due to dissatisfaction with their jobs. If they want to take a year off, they work more, pick up side projects, cut expenses, and gradually save for it. Is that route really "morally" worse than asking others to pay for it? I consider forcing others to pay for something (by proxy) worse than asking others to pay for it, yes. I also find it odd that somebody else wouldn't.
sarciszewski 12y ago
This looks like the sort of comment that belongs on https://twitter.com/HackerNewsOnion https://twitter.com/HackerNewsOnion
- kadabra9 12y ago
  How so? Because I'm a little put off that OP wants to take a year off to just do what he wants, and hopes everyone else will pay his expenses?
  - sarciszewski 12y ago
    Have you ever watched this video before? http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking
  - joepie91_ 12y ago
    > and hopes everyone else will pay his expenses? How is that any different when you have a paid job? Other people will still be paying your salary by purchasing products/services/etc., there will just be an extra hop inbetween that takes a cut. That's just how the economy works.
bjourne 12y ago
Why piss on someone elses bonfire? If you don't like what he is doing, just dont donate. > Sorry, but that's life. I leave work and am often too tired to hit the gym, much less come home and work on my side projects, but I find a way to do it (usually) and save money little by little. No, that's your life. That you don't have what it takes to change it doesn't mean that someone else can't. Your whole message comes of as kind of bitter and whiny. By your own admission you'd love to do the same thing as the op, but because you wont get others to foot the bill no one else can?
- kadabra9 12y ago
  >That you don't have what it takes to change it doesn't mean that someone else can't. Change what? My objections to panhandling on the internet so others can pay for me to take a year off? What makes this such a novel or morally enlightened idea? Is OP the first person in history to not like working? I think I'll quit my job, move to China, and help feed and raise red pandas for a year. But I don't want to work or pay for any of the trip myself because working is evil, and I don't want to work for the man. So who wants to pay for it?
  - joepie91_ 12y ago
    I really wonder why you seem so intent on complaining about this, while apparently completely ignoring any responses I give you. Your entire premise that I "just don't like working" is wrong. The concept of "work" does not require employment or a commercial agenda. Had you actually read properly, you would have understood that I actually work more than most people with a job - it's just not under an employment contract. Go read my previous responses to you: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138603 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138249 Your remark about 'panhandling' is complete nonsense too; the whole point of panhandling is that it's unidirectional; the recipient does nothing useful in return, not even indirectly. That doesn't even remotely apply to this fundraiser. I've run out of ways to say this nicely.
  - sarciszewski 12y ago
    Let's take a closer look at kadabra9 and see what lies under the hood. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6307606 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6307606 "Ask HN: Advice for discussing a substantial raise with my employer?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7100749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7100749 "Ask HN: I may have made a mistake taking this job. What's next?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144934 "Ask HN: What's the worst you've ever screwed up at work?" Geez, it sounds like you're dissatisfied with your career path and embittered by a lack of money and/or appreciation, and are taking your resentment out on someone who is willing to do work for essentially free, possibly out of a need to justify your own paycheck. Kindly pull your head out of your ass, k?

joepie91_ 12y ago

It's really quite simple - if I'm not doing something I'm enjoying, I'm not going to churn out a good end result. That's just inherent to the creative process. My priorities lie with helping as many people as possible as much as possible, not with increasing the balance of a corporate bank account, so that result is unacceptable to me. It's very easy to shout "just get a job!", but the reality is that the moral repercussions of "just getting a job" are far bigger than asking people for voluntary(!) contributions if/when they appreciate what you're doing. My income is dependent on whether people appreciate what I do, not on whether I tick abstract checkboxes on a list of technical requirements that may very well not serve anyone. I consider that the better option of the two.

TheMagicHorsey 12y ago
Not sure if its efficient for someone else to work a job they don't like, for the man, so as to fund you, so you can work a job you like, not for the man. The moral repercussions as you call them, do not disappear if you transfer the burden onto someone else. I think you should figure out how to monetize your work and support yourself. Or, if that isn't possible, work some job (not necessarily in tech) to raise enough to feed yourself as you work. But I hope your kickstarter is successful in any case. Seems to me you would use the money in a more useful way than most.
- joepie91_ 12y ago
  > Not sure if its efficient for someone else to work a job they don't like, for the man, so as to fund you, so you can work a job you like, not for the man. > The moral repercussions as you call them, do not disappear if you transfer the burden onto someone else. They don't disappear, but they certainly do change. Money flows regardless; the question is to where it flows. If you look at things as a trade-off between energy and social benefit, in simplified form for the sake of illustration... Scenario A: Dave has a well-paid job, and let's say he's hypothetically able and willing to fund me entirely. He spends $17k of his yearly $100k on keeping me afloat. There is now one person-year of energy going to a corporate purpose, and one person-year of energy (mine) going into a socially beneficial purpose. Scenario B: Dave has the same well-paid job, but spends $17k on booze and other 'disposable income' things instead. He's not going to be paid any less. I have my own paid job, that pays $17k per year. There are now two person-years of energy going into a corporate purpose, and none into a socially beneficial purpose. Dave does not work any less hours, and his contribution to corporate purposes is not lessened, but mine has increased. Consider it as me trying to 'pick up the scraps' of money that others don't really need (and that they are willing to put towards a socially beneficial purpose), so that I can spend my person-years on something that benefits everybody, not just a corporate purpose. I would agree with your point if I were asking people to get a paid job for the purpose of supporting me (although you could then have a more interesting discussion about how the productivity differences change the equation), but as it stands I'm just piggybacking on corporate work that is already being done. The terminology I used above may not be perfectly accurate, but I've tried to keep it simple for readability. > I think you should figure out how to monetize your work and support yourself. Non-voluntary "monetizing" just introduces attached strings and distorted priorities, no matter how ethically okay the particular form of income is. It would not allow me to do what I do now. That's why I'm doing this fundraiser - which, conceptually, is just a form of voluntary monetization. > Or, if that isn't possible, work some job (not necessarily in tech) to raise enough to feed yourself as you work. I've tried that (see also my passage on the campaign page about the open-source job), and it didn't work out well at all. I had raised these concerns to my employer prior to taking on the job, and was told that they believed they could make it work, but it ended up not working after all, more or less as predicted (and I'm not blaming my employer for that). > But I hope your kickstarter is successful in any case. Seems to me you would use the money in a more useful way than most. Thanks!
kadabra9 12y ago
It really is quite simple --- find work that you enjoy. This should be pretty easy for someone with your skillset. Just because you "want to help people" or have some moral objection to working for the man does not mean you're entitled to have others fund your dream lifestyle. There are millions of talented people (some of which I'm sure have noble intentions) out there who don't like their jobs, or at the end of the day are not producing a good result due to dissatisfaction with their jobs. If they want to take a year off, they work more, pick up side projects, cut expenses, and gradually save for it. Is that route really "morally" worse than asking others to pay for it?
- joepie91_ 12y ago
  > It really is quite simple --- find work that you enjoy. I already did. That's what I'm doing now. That I'm not employed by somebody or running a commercial operation, doesn't mean it's somehow not 'work'. The parameters are just different. > Just because you "want to help people" or have some moral objection to working for the man does not mean you're entitled to have others fund your dream lifestyle. Who said anything about entitlement? This is a fundraiser that you can voluntarily contribute to. It doesn't even have any material perks for that reason. I'm just constantly amazed at the lengths to which people go to try and paint accepting voluntary contributions as something immoral, while involuntary (that is, forced) payment is apparently perfectly fine. > There are millions of talented people (some of which I'm sure have noble intentions) out there who don't like their jobs, or at the end of the day are not producing a good result due to dissatisfaction with their jobs. If they want to take a year off, they work more, pick up side projects, cut expenses, and gradually save for it. Is that route really "morally" worse than asking others to pay for it? I consider forcing others to pay for something (by proxy) worse than asking others to pay for it, yes. I also find it odd that somebody else wouldn't.

sarciszewski 12y ago

This looks like the sort of comment that belongs on https://twitter.com/HackerNewsOnion https://twitter.com/HackerNewsOnion

kadabra9 12y ago
How so? Because I'm a little put off that OP wants to take a year off to just do what he wants, and hopes everyone else will pay his expenses?
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  Have you ever watched this video before? http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking http://www.ted.com/talks/amanda_palmer_the_art_of_asking
- joepie91_ 12y ago
  > and hopes everyone else will pay his expenses? How is that any different when you have a paid job? Other people will still be paying your salary by purchasing products/services/etc., there will just be an extra hop inbetween that takes a cut. That's just how the economy works.

bjourne 12y ago

Why piss on someone elses bonfire? If you don't like what he is doing, just dont donate. > Sorry, but that's life. I leave work and am often too tired to hit the gym, much less come home and work on my side projects, but I find a way to do it (usually) and save money little by little. No, that's your life. That you don't have what it takes to change it doesn't mean that someone else can't. Your whole message comes of as kind of bitter and whiny. By your own admission you'd love to do the same thing as the op, but because you wont get others to foot the bill no one else can?

kadabra9 12y ago
>That you don't have what it takes to change it doesn't mean that someone else can't. Change what? My objections to panhandling on the internet so others can pay for me to take a year off? What makes this such a novel or morally enlightened idea? Is OP the first person in history to not like working? I think I'll quit my job, move to China, and help feed and raise red pandas for a year. But I don't want to work or pay for any of the trip myself because working is evil, and I don't want to work for the man. So who wants to pay for it?
- joepie91_ 12y ago
  I really wonder why you seem so intent on complaining about this, while apparently completely ignoring any responses I give you. Your entire premise that I "just don't like working" is wrong. The concept of "work" does not require employment or a commercial agenda. Had you actually read properly, you would have understood that I actually work more than most people with a job - it's just not under an employment contract. Go read my previous responses to you: * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138603 * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8138249 Your remark about 'panhandling' is complete nonsense too; the whole point of panhandling is that it's unidirectional; the recipient does nothing useful in return, not even indirectly. That doesn't even remotely apply to this fundraiser. I've run out of ways to say this nicely.
- sarciszewski 12y ago
  Let's take a closer look at kadabra9 and see what lies under the hood. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6307606 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6307606 "Ask HN: Advice for discussing a substantial raise with my employer?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7100749 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7100749 "Ask HN: I may have made a mistake taking this job. What's next?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7144934 "Ask HN: What's the worst you've ever screwed up at work?" Geez, it sounds like you're dissatisfied with your career path and embittered by a lack of money and/or appreciation, and are taking your resentment out on someone who is willing to do work for essentially free, possibly out of a need to justify your own paycheck. Kindly pull your head out of your ass, k?