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I think this is a prime example of how pay scales recruiting policies are very difficult to apply across a multi million person organization. If you change the

I think this is a prime example of how pay scales recruiting policies are very difficult to apply across a multi million person organization. If you change the rules for cyber positions, you must consider changing them for all positions. Rank and pay scales are the same across any GS position and across military ranks at this point - perhaps we should think about paying those with key skills more money, but that argument is extremely tough to implement and get legislated. Result: "Forget it, let's just hire some contractors."

walshemj 12y ago
Doesn't the NSA opt out of the GS pay scales? Its a major problem for all technical/scientific civil service jobs. And hiring contractors from Booze ma kidney - has worked out so well for them hasn't it.
- sailfast 12y ago
  It's difficult to "opt out" of GS pay scales, and even then if you do you then have to follow different recruiting patterns and are subject to fairly strict guidelines. They do have special scales for special positions, but from what I understand that takes awhile to establish and still has strict guidelines. (http://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/2014/index.aspx http://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/2014/index.aspx) Federal recruiting can be quite a minefield, which is a significant problem in fast-moving professions. According to this article the NSA don't opt out of the GS scale, but that's not to say they don't offer temporary positions with slightly different criteria: http://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html http://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html I'm unsure if it's different on the military side but typically that pay / Basic allowance for housing / etc is also clearly defined in advance.
- pleenq 12y ago
  The NSA doesn't opt out of pay scales -- all general employees follow the GS pay scale with GS 10 removed (GS 9 promotes to GS 11). For those with a degree in certain fields, they follow an increased pay scale but along the same grade. For instance, someone with an electrical engineering degree would follow the GE pay scale, which still has the same path (GE 9, 11-15) but makes something like 2-10k more per year. The biggest difference, is that their promotion structure is split into two parts: there is a technical route to promotion and an administrative route. This means that you can either be good at being in charge of people and get promoted (administrative), or just be good at what you do (technical). It leads to interesting situations where a GS12 is put in charge of divisions comprising GS15 veterans of 20 years experience, but all in all it is by far the best government run organization I've worked for.
  - walshemj 12y ago
    Ah I seem to remember an article that said they did probably wired or a similar publication getting the wrong end of the stick. The UK scientific civil service has similar problems in that for generic management roles they are paid fairly well for high end technical skills not so much. Even worse once you get into roles for the TLA's - it will end up like the 30's where the only people that the security services could recruit where those with private incomes or ex military on pensions.
phaus 12y ago
>If you change the rules for cyber positions, you must consider changing them for all positions. Rank and pay scales are the same across any GS position and across military ranks at this point.. This isn't entirely true. Unlike the military pay scale, the GS pay scale does have ways to pay certain fields more money. Its not very much in most cases, but its there. IT jobs generally get you 10% more than other fields. The only GS jobs I know of that get a substantial about of extra money are the Scientific and Medical jobs. There are special codes that allow them to add at least another 50k-100k to their income, depending on the specific type of position that they hold.

walshemj 12y ago

Doesn't the NSA opt out of the GS pay scales? Its a major problem for all technical/scientific civil service jobs. And hiring contractors from Booze ma kidney - has worked out so well for them hasn't it.

sailfast 12y ago
It's difficult to "opt out" of GS pay scales, and even then if you do you then have to follow different recruiting patterns and are subject to fairly strict guidelines. They do have special scales for special positions, but from what I understand that takes awhile to establish and still has strict guidelines. (http://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/2014/index.aspx http://apps.opm.gov/SpecialRates/2014/index.aspx) Federal recruiting can be quite a minefield, which is a significant problem in fast-moving professions. According to this article the NSA don't opt out of the GS scale, but that's not to say they don't offer temporary positions with slightly different criteria: http://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html http://work.chron.com/nsa-pay-scale-16399.html I'm unsure if it's different on the military side but typically that pay / Basic allowance for housing / etc is also clearly defined in advance.
pleenq 12y ago
The NSA doesn't opt out of pay scales -- all general employees follow the GS pay scale with GS 10 removed (GS 9 promotes to GS 11). For those with a degree in certain fields, they follow an increased pay scale but along the same grade. For instance, someone with an electrical engineering degree would follow the GE pay scale, which still has the same path (GE 9, 11-15) but makes something like 2-10k more per year. The biggest difference, is that their promotion structure is split into two parts: there is a technical route to promotion and an administrative route. This means that you can either be good at being in charge of people and get promoted (administrative), or just be good at what you do (technical). It leads to interesting situations where a GS12 is put in charge of divisions comprising GS15 veterans of 20 years experience, but all in all it is by far the best government run organization I've worked for.
- walshemj 12y ago
  Ah I seem to remember an article that said they did probably wired or a similar publication getting the wrong end of the stick. The UK scientific civil service has similar problems in that for generic management roles they are paid fairly well for high end technical skills not so much. Even worse once you get into roles for the TLA's - it will end up like the 30's where the only people that the security services could recruit where those with private incomes or ex military on pensions.

phaus 12y ago

>If you change the rules for cyber positions, you must consider changing them for all positions. Rank and pay scales are the same across any GS position and across military ranks at this point.. This isn't entirely true. Unlike the military pay scale, the GS pay scale does have ways to pay certain fields more money. Its not very much in most cases, but its there. IT jobs generally get you 10% more than other fields. The only GS jobs I know of that get a substantial about of extra money are the Scientific and Medical jobs. There are special codes that allow them to add at least another 50k-100k to their income, depending on the specific type of position that they hold.