4 ms·

Part of it is that the government doesn't want to, the other part of it is that the American people would shit their pants if they found out that a low-ranking

by phaus 12y ago

Part of it is that the government doesn't want to, the other part of it is that the American people would shit their pants if they found out that a low-ranking Soldier was making 6 figures a year off of taxpayer money. People resent it when government employees make more money than they do. Also, in the Army, you make the same amount of money no matter what your job is. The people they used to have that were only qualified to do laundry 40 hours a week as a full-time job get paid the same amount of money as intelligence analysts and information technology specialists.

deciplex 12y ago
The base pay is the same, but don't they have all kinds of extra pay they can tack on for various reasons? There is combat pay, but I'm sure there must be more than that.
- __john 12y ago
  You can get extra money for all kinds of things. Knowing another language, certain career fields (i.e. special forces and contracting) still have re-enlistment bonuses, etc. etc. None of the "cyber" career fields, in the Air Force at least, get any sort of extra money that I'm aware of.
- phaus 12y ago
  John is correct. There are different types of extra pay, but they don't have anything for tech related jobs. The allowances in the Army are for things like jumping out of a plane, scuba diving, foreign languages, combat pay, etc. The Army still has this attitude that if you aren't outside all day, running around yelling at people, then you must not be doing any work. I'm not sure if that will ever change.
zachrose 12y ago
The NSA has no problem paying for top talent, but they do it by going through consulting firms. It's true that most Americans would shit their pants at 6 figure soldiers, but few military skills are so valued by the open market. As we're constantly told by the tech media, you should prefer five $200,000 people to ten $100,000 people, or—god forbid—50+ people writing PowerShell scripts for minimum wage.
- phaus 12y ago
  >It's true that most Americans would shit their pants at 6 figure soldiers, but few military skills are so valued by the open market. Infantrymen won't have marketable skills, but we are talking about military security analysts. These guys often do have skills equivalent to their civilian counterparts. You seem to be making the same assumption that many others in this thread have: that all Soldiers are infantrymen of less than average intelligence.
  - zachrose 12y ago
    The link upthread of us shows that annual pay for federal cybersecurity professionals is about on par with industry [1], especially when considering geography/cost of living. My surprise had more to do with learning that cyberwarefare reservists exist, let alone enlisted soldiers. (I'm not familiar with the military.) [1]: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR400/RR430/RAND_RR430.pdf http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/R... p.64
    - phaus 12y ago
      >My surprise had more to do with learning that cyberwarefare reservists exist.. I can see how you would be surprised. It seems counter-intuitive, but its actually normal for reservists in technical fields to be better at their jobs than the military. The best example I can think of is the field of aviation. Many reserve pilots are commercial pilots that get to fly 1000s of hours each year. Their full-time military counterparts don't get to fly their fancy fighter jets very often, because its really expensive.
- rdl 12y ago
  Doctors and pilots get paid reasonably well by the military (especially once training, liability, etc. is factored in). We could probably do something reasonable in infosec.
  - phaus 12y ago
    >Doctors and pilots get paid reasonably well by the military. Doctors are officers. This means that they get paid much more than Soldiers, but its still a laughably low amount when you compare it to a civilian doctor's salary. Pilots are also officers. Their salaries are closer to the civilian world, but they are still probably a little low. I don't think the Army is about to convert tens of thousands of IT specialists and Intel analysts from enlisted Soldiers to commissioned officers. Even if they did, the majority of them would still be making well below market rate. Even the officer ranks that pay competitively require 10-20 years of service. At that point you are going to have a salary that's comparable to a civilian security analyst with a couple years' experience.
walshemj 12y ago
But they would not be low ranking soldiers all IT professionals would have to start at officer level - I did work at one ex civil service tech company and our grades still had a mapping to military and civilservice ones.
- phaus 12y ago
  >But they would not be low ranking soldiers all IT professionals would have to start at officer level. Officer income is higher than Enlisted income, but it still starts at around 34k for a single person. Depending on where you live, its probably going to be about 46k for someone that's married. That's still pretty low for the type of people they are looking for.

by phaus 12y ago

deciplex 12y ago

The base pay is the same, but don't they have all kinds of extra pay they can tack on for various reasons? There is combat pay, but I'm sure there must be more than that.

__john 12y ago
You can get extra money for all kinds of things. Knowing another language, certain career fields (i.e. special forces and contracting) still have re-enlistment bonuses, etc. etc. None of the "cyber" career fields, in the Air Force at least, get any sort of extra money that I'm aware of.
phaus 12y ago
John is correct. There are different types of extra pay, but they don't have anything for tech related jobs. The allowances in the Army are for things like jumping out of a plane, scuba diving, foreign languages, combat pay, etc. The Army still has this attitude that if you aren't outside all day, running around yelling at people, then you must not be doing any work. I'm not sure if that will ever change.

zachrose 12y ago

The NSA has no problem paying for top talent, but they do it by going through consulting firms. It's true that most Americans would shit their pants at 6 figure soldiers, but few military skills are so valued by the open market. As we're constantly told by the tech media, you should prefer five $200,000 people to ten $100,000 people, or—god forbid—50+ people writing PowerShell scripts for minimum wage.

phaus 12y ago
>It's true that most Americans would shit their pants at 6 figure soldiers, but few military skills are so valued by the open market. Infantrymen won't have marketable skills, but we are talking about military security analysts. These guys often do have skills equivalent to their civilian counterparts. You seem to be making the same assumption that many others in this thread have: that all Soldiers are infantrymen of less than average intelligence.
- zachrose 12y ago
  The link upthread of us shows that annual pay for federal cybersecurity professionals is about on par with industry [1], especially when considering geography/cost of living. My surprise had more to do with learning that cyberwarefare reservists exist, let alone enlisted soldiers. (I'm not familiar with the military.) [1]: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR400/RR430/RAND_RR430.pdf http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/R... p.64
  - phaus 12y ago
    >My surprise had more to do with learning that cyberwarefare reservists exist.. I can see how you would be surprised. It seems counter-intuitive, but its actually normal for reservists in technical fields to be better at their jobs than the military. The best example I can think of is the field of aviation. Many reserve pilots are commercial pilots that get to fly 1000s of hours each year. Their full-time military counterparts don't get to fly their fancy fighter jets very often, because its really expensive.
rdl 12y ago
Doctors and pilots get paid reasonably well by the military (especially once training, liability, etc. is factored in). We could probably do something reasonable in infosec.
- phaus 12y ago
  >Doctors and pilots get paid reasonably well by the military. Doctors are officers. This means that they get paid much more than Soldiers, but its still a laughably low amount when you compare it to a civilian doctor's salary. Pilots are also officers. Their salaries are closer to the civilian world, but they are still probably a little low. I don't think the Army is about to convert tens of thousands of IT specialists and Intel analysts from enlisted Soldiers to commissioned officers. Even if they did, the majority of them would still be making well below market rate. Even the officer ranks that pay competitively require 10-20 years of service. At that point you are going to have a salary that's comparable to a civilian security analyst with a couple years' experience.

walshemj 12y ago

But they would not be low ranking soldiers all IT professionals would have to start at officer level - I did work at one ex civil service tech company and our grades still had a mapping to military and civilservice ones.

phaus 12y ago
>But they would not be low ranking soldiers all IT professionals would have to start at officer level. Officer income is higher than Enlisted income, but it still starts at around 34k for a single person. Depending on where you live, its probably going to be about 46k for someone that's married. That's still pretty low for the type of people they are looking for.