5 ms·

It's a shame their Indie plan doesn't include Visual Studio support, without that there is way less value as a developer imo (and at $1k/yr still steep for thei

It's a shame their Indie plan doesn't include Visual Studio support, without that there is way less value as a developer imo (and at $1k/yr still steep for their business plan).

Deusdies 12y ago
One day. One day I hope Xamarin will find a different financing model, or like you said include VS support in their indie plan. It's just far too expensive right now.
- je42 12y ago
  Yeah. Also, I find it very sad that you cannot even try the Forms API before buying the suite. Their model only works for companies / individuals that don't care about the pricing.
  - benologist 12y ago
    I also dislike their pricing. But their CEO was very open to discussing it by email the other month when they had a big new release, someone more articulate than me may convince them on the merits of a different model. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7810310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7810310 => nat@xamarin.com.
  - jbigelow76 12y ago
    Did they get rid of the eval period (30 day money back guarantee is not the same as an eval period) when they switched to a monthly subscription model? Edit: the trial is mentioned in the extended FAQ http://xamarin.com/faq#pricing http://xamarin.com/faq#pricing One thing I didn't realize was that it any app built with the trial version can only be used for a 24 period. My plan was to build a LOB app, get my company to see the value in it and then have them purchase the full license. The 24 hour window makes that really difficult.
- mkal_tsr 12y ago
  I'm basically sitting here twiddling my thumbs and once VS support is included in indie (aka not ridiculously expensive) I will immediately buy a subscription. Until then, my (limited) money goes elsewhere.
- pan69 12y ago
  Just looking at the pricing model again and I see they've introduced monthly subscriptions. Going for the business plan will be, paid monthly, marginally cheaper than the annual subscription fee. I think I'd rather pay $83 a month than $999 at once.
- segmondy 12y ago
  You can dev for free with android/ios tools, you don't have to use Xamarin. The point of Xamarin is that you can make more money faster by developing and releasing for multiple platforms from one code base.
UK-Al05 12y ago
Compared to developers salaries, it is very cheap.
- pan69 12y ago
  True. But then again, Xamarin Studio is not a developer. :)
  - hnal943 12y ago
    Yes, but if it saves your developers enough (expensive) time, it would be worth it.
    - tluyben2 12y ago
      It does. It's the best native development system currently around imho and will, one day, be replaced by HTML5 probably. But that's not now ; especially with Forms and our own iOS API on Android/WP8 implementation, we are much faster to market with much better results than possible with HTML5.
- yulaow 12y ago
  compared to US developer salaries.
  - zura 12y ago
    Well, compare to eastern European salaries then ;)
    - adamors 12y ago
      $1000 is a decent monthly salary for a lot of developers in Eastern Europe.
- mpyne 12y ago
  Don't mind me, but this is giving me flashbacks to 15 years ago when this was the Qt user's response to the FUD about license prices given out by certain developers who may or may not have later founded and joined Xamarin. Fascinating how the tables turn.
keithwarren 12y ago
I have come to the conclusion that people A) this sentiment is an edge case and B) people will never be happy. The last time there was a thread about Xamarin on here the top comment was complaining about the cost of a license, several weeks later they announce monthly pricing. Now the complaint is we don't get Visual Studio support with indie pricing. Seriously folks? I am not trying to be a Xamarin apologist but the company has to make money and find a model somewhere that makes sense - putting VS support in an up-level SKU makes all the sense in the world if you follow the trends. Look at it this way, the majority of Xamarin customers who want Visual Studio support are businesses for whom the cost of the licenses is irrelevant in the larger picture (I dont want to provide a math lesson but if they x-plat savings are manifest, the ROI on the licenses is near immediate). That is where Xamarin can find the margin to support the lower tiers. If they had the ability to support the entire company on $25/developer/year then I venture they would because there is value for them right now not in taking profit but in growing the developer base. Alas they are not doing that which tells me they are finding customers in the enterprise more than willing to pay for their product. In order to get TRIPLE the revenue per customer they add one specific sweet spot that they know nearly all those customers want - Visual Studio support. If they put that in the lower tiers they nuke their margins because it is the feature that matters most to the enterprise dev teams who are often filled with people who know and enjoy visual studio above other environments. It also enables them to not purchase a secon machine (mac) for each of these developers which gets beyond the hardware and licensing costs and has an effective cost on IT operations. So yes, it would be nice if Visual Studio support were included in the indie tier - but it would not be prudent. Besides, how many 'indie' developers do you know are actually completely dependent on Visual Studio? I love Visual Studio and half my consulting revenue comes from the hours I spend in it - but the other half of my time which is usually spent doing mobile development is done in Xamarin Studio because - surprise, it is really pretty good.
- mkal_tsr 12y ago
  > Now the complaint is we don't get Visual Studio support with indie pricing. Seriously folks? My comment from that thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7811180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7811180 So now instead of $3k out of pocket for VS support, it's only $1k. I'm sure it's a good product, but my complaint has not changed (so I'm not sure why you said 'now the complaint is' since you're replying to someone that has maintained the same complaint). I mean, if you wanna gimmie $1k so I can test out Xamarin+VS for more than 30 days, I'd totally be down, but until then, I'm merely posting on HN (since their company reads HN) that it is still cost prohibitive even though I want to give them money.
CmonDev 12y ago
Yes, they are making a mistake. Just look how well Unity3d is doing after embracing indies on a budget.

It's a shame their Indie plan doesn't include Visual Studio support, without that there is way less value as a developer imo (and at $1k/yr still steep for their business plan).

Deusdies 12y ago

One day. One day I hope Xamarin will find a different financing model, or like you said include VS support in their indie plan. It's just far too expensive right now.

je42 12y ago
Yeah. Also, I find it very sad that you cannot even try the Forms API before buying the suite. Their model only works for companies / individuals that don't care about the pricing.
- benologist 12y ago
  I also dislike their pricing. But their CEO was very open to discussing it by email the other month when they had a big new release, someone more articulate than me may convince them on the merits of a different model. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7810310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7810310 => nat@xamarin.com.
- jbigelow76 12y ago
  Did they get rid of the eval period (30 day money back guarantee is not the same as an eval period) when they switched to a monthly subscription model? Edit: the trial is mentioned in the extended FAQ http://xamarin.com/faq#pricing http://xamarin.com/faq#pricing One thing I didn't realize was that it any app built with the trial version can only be used for a 24 period. My plan was to build a LOB app, get my company to see the value in it and then have them purchase the full license. The 24 hour window makes that really difficult.
mkal_tsr 12y ago
I'm basically sitting here twiddling my thumbs and once VS support is included in indie (aka not ridiculously expensive) I will immediately buy a subscription. Until then, my (limited) money goes elsewhere.
pan69 12y ago
Just looking at the pricing model again and I see they've introduced monthly subscriptions. Going for the business plan will be, paid monthly, marginally cheaper than the annual subscription fee. I think I'd rather pay $83 a month than $999 at once.
segmondy 12y ago
You can dev for free with android/ios tools, you don't have to use Xamarin. The point of Xamarin is that you can make more money faster by developing and releasing for multiple platforms from one code base.

UK-Al05 12y ago

Compared to developers salaries, it is very cheap.

pan69 12y ago
True. But then again, Xamarin Studio is not a developer. :)
- hnal943 12y ago
  Yes, but if it saves your developers enough (expensive) time, it would be worth it.
  - tluyben2 12y ago
    It does. It's the best native development system currently around imho and will, one day, be replaced by HTML5 probably. But that's not now ; especially with Forms and our own iOS API on Android/WP8 implementation, we are much faster to market with much better results than possible with HTML5.
yulaow 12y ago
compared to US developer salaries.
- zura 12y ago
  Well, compare to eastern European salaries then ;)
  - adamors 12y ago
    $1000 is a decent monthly salary for a lot of developers in Eastern Europe.
mpyne 12y ago
Don't mind me, but this is giving me flashbacks to 15 years ago when this was the Qt user's response to the FUD about license prices given out by certain developers who may or may not have later founded and joined Xamarin. Fascinating how the tables turn.

keithwarren 12y ago

I have come to the conclusion that people A) this sentiment is an edge case and B) people will never be happy. The last time there was a thread about Xamarin on here the top comment was complaining about the cost of a license, several weeks later they announce monthly pricing. Now the complaint is we don't get Visual Studio support with indie pricing. Seriously folks? I am not trying to be a Xamarin apologist but the company has to make money and find a model somewhere that makes sense - putting VS support in an up-level SKU makes all the sense in the world if you follow the trends. Look at it this way, the majority of Xamarin customers who want Visual Studio support are businesses for whom the cost of the licenses is irrelevant in the larger picture (I dont want to provide a math lesson but if they x-plat savings are manifest, the ROI on the licenses is near immediate). That is where Xamarin can find the margin to support the lower tiers. If they had the ability to support the entire company on $25/developer/year then I venture they would because there is value for them right now not in taking profit but in growing the developer base. Alas they are not doing that which tells me they are finding customers in the enterprise more than willing to pay for their product. In order to get TRIPLE the revenue per customer they add one specific sweet spot that they know nearly all those customers want - Visual Studio support. If they put that in the lower tiers they nuke their margins because it is the feature that matters most to the enterprise dev teams who are often filled with people who know and enjoy visual studio above other environments. It also enables them to not purchase a secon machine (mac) for each of these developers which gets beyond the hardware and licensing costs and has an effective cost on IT operations. So yes, it would be nice if Visual Studio support were included in the indie tier - but it would not be prudent. Besides, how many 'indie' developers do you know are actually completely dependent on Visual Studio? I love Visual Studio and half my consulting revenue comes from the hours I spend in it - but the other half of my time which is usually spent doing mobile development is done in Xamarin Studio because - surprise, it is really pretty good.

mkal_tsr 12y ago
> Now the complaint is we don't get Visual Studio support with indie pricing. Seriously folks? My comment from that thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7811180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7811180 So now instead of $3k out of pocket for VS support, it's only $1k. I'm sure it's a good product, but my complaint has not changed (so I'm not sure why you said 'now the complaint is' since you're replying to someone that has maintained the same complaint). I mean, if you wanna gimmie $1k so I can test out Xamarin+VS for more than 30 days, I'd totally be down, but until then, I'm merely posting on HN (since their company reads HN) that it is still cost prohibitive even though I want to give them money.

CmonDev 12y ago

Yes, they are making a mistake. Just look how well Unity3d is doing after embracing indies on a budget.