4 ms·

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theo

by cfstras 12y ago

Disclaimer: I am from Germany. The speeding system we have here seems to make a lot more sense to me: On most highways, there is no speed limit. The only (theoretical) limit is the motor limitation of 155 mph (250 km/h), which can be taken out, but will almost always lead to losing any kind of motor warranty. In practice, there are limiting signs to 75 mph (120 km/h) for passages where the road is not good enough or there are narrow curves, unclear conditions etc. In my experience, this system works wonderfully: when the road is good, you can drive as fast as you like, so people are more concious about paying attention to the road and their rear mirrors, especially when hogging up the left lane. I acknowledge that completely overtaking this system would be impossible for the US, simply because the roads are not up to it and the driving tests are not rigorous enough, but I think Germany serves as a fine example that there would be no harm in raising the speed limits a few notches.

Cakez0r 12y ago
I think it would work to just make the inside lane unrestricted and only have speed limits on the outer lanes. That way, slow and fast drivers aren't endangering each other because they're in completely separate streams of traffic.
- cfstras 12y ago
  Except that could encourage people to stay out of the right lanes -- leading to confusion or wasted lanes when trying to pass people, which happens all the time. If you closely watch a german highway, there are 2 to 3 lanes (per direction) for the most part, and the speeds are quite consistent: The rightmost lane is full of trucks going 60 mph (90-100 km/h), while the middle lane is going around 80 mph (130 km/h), which is the advised speed, or Richtgeschwindigkeit. The leftmost lane is left exclusively for passing slower cars and those going 100+ mph (160+ km/h).
chadgeidel 12y ago
I'm sure you hear this all the time, but it's my understanding that US drivers are not nearly as well "trained" as German drivers. Anecdata, yes yes. It's trivially easy to acquire and maintain a driving permit here in the States, and it shows. (US citizen here - I don't know about German drivers, but of course the skills of Germans are legendary. The automotive media tells us all German drivers are as skilled as Walter Röhrl. I'm only partially kidding.)
- pinaceae 12y ago
  they're not that much better, you still have seniors, old ladies in a hat, etc. driving. the initial steps to obtain a driver's license are much harder than in the US, that's correct.
- cfstras 12y ago
  There is some truth to that, we have more training: 14x 45min of theory school-style lessons and at least 12x 45min of practice with a certified driving instructor. Also, the minimum age to be driving on the road is 17, and you have to be accompanied by someone 21+ until you are 18. The skills here are not legendary per se; the mean might be a bit better. The difference is that people seem to have more respect for other drivers and dangers on the road, creating more awareness overall. But still, I think allowing skilled drivers to drive faster would do no harm to the population, if the faster people stick to the guidelines. For example: you do see the occasional snail moving in the left highway lane, but it won't be long until he is ushered away by some faster car with some furious flashes of the brights.
- mturmon 12y ago
  There are also very high standards (strict regular inspections) regarding vehicle maintenance. US citizens would never put up with that.
- driverdan 12y ago
  Ding ding ding! The solution is better driver training and mandatory retesting for all drivers at regular intervals. So many drivers of all ages are absolutely terrible. Everyone should be able to go 85 MPH on a six lane highway but you can't because there are so many bad drivers. Driving is not a right and it should not be treated that way.
cylinder 12y ago
Yes, the main point is that I pay more attention when driving faster on a freeway. One need only take a road trip in Australia to see how ridiculous low speed limits on open roads are. 110 kmh limit with, yes, very strong enforcement in place, in a completely rural area with few cars around, no people, no pedestrians, on a long drive (it's ten hours from Melbourne to Sydney with basically nothing in between). Result -- zone out on cruise control, look at your phone, talk to others in the car, etc. Focus on the road? Nope.
- cfstras 12y ago
  Exactly -- sure, you can still hide behind a truck and go 100 km/h all the time -- but most cars efficiency sweet spot is around 130 km/h, and driving at that speed leads to more dynamic, occasionally passing trucks, etc.
  - gnur 12y ago
    What is an "efficency sweet spot"? When I consistently drive at the speed limit (in the Netherlands, 120km/h) I have to fill up every 4 working days. When I consistently drive 100 km/h I only have to fill up every 5 working days. Takes 20% longer but the tank also lasts 20% longer.
    - gambiting 12y ago
      Depends on the car. If you have a tiny engine, then it will use large amounts of fuel at high speeds. If you have a large engine, it will use less. My personal experience: Peugeot Partner 2.0 HDi - 6-7l/100km when driving in city traffic, 12-13l/100km when driving at 140km/h, Land Rover Discovery 3 4.4L V8 - 15-16l/100km when driving in city traffic, 9-10l/100km when driving at 140km/h. Basically your engine should stay below 3000rpm - if you have to keep it at 4000rpm just to maintain a certain speed then it's too much for the engine and it's not being efficient.
    - cfstras 12y ago
      It really depends on the car. I mostly drive rentals, in the range of Ford Fiesta to Opel Astra -- all of them fell in that range.
goodcanadian 12y ago
On a perhaps related note, a road I used to drive regularly had many curves and signs warning you to slow down at each one. Only one of the curves actually required you to slow down to navigate it safely. Guess which corner was where all of the accidents happened? If you "cry wolf" too often, people will ignore the speed limit (or caution signs or whatever). If, however, the speed limit is usually appropriate, people will take note when it changes, and drive appropriately.
skrause 12y ago
I'm also German and I would like to have a general speed limit on highways. Your theory sounds all nice and works if you drive on empty roads, but as soon as there's a bit of traffic the lack of a speed limit results in a very stressful and uncomfortable driving. The main problem is the speed difference between the individual lanes. On the right lane you have the trucks which are limited to 90 km/h by law, so that's the maximum speed you can usually drive on that lane. Now most highways only have two or three lanes. No speed limit usually results in a difference of at least 40 km/h between lanes and always-changing speeds because of traffic. Driving in a small car with a low-power engine is no fun at all, your only choices are getting stuck behind trucks at 90 km/h or a constant speeding up, slowing down, switching lanes and pushing your car to its limit. My personal theory is that this is one of the main reasons why German drivers are so aggressive. The drivers most in favor of no speed limit are usually also the most aggressive.
- ajmurmann 12y ago
  It depends on the Autobahn. I strongly felt what you described on pretty much any Autobahn around cologne where there always was a lot traffic and many on and off ramps. However, my ride usually would take me from there onto the 44(?) towards Paderborn and there was no speed limit and it was a joy even in an old Golf 2. There were very few on and off ramps and moderate traffic. My car would be able to speed up to ~220km/h over the course of several minutes, but it was so worth it.
- gambiting 12y ago
  >>My personal theory is that this is one of the main reasons why German drivers are so aggressive. AS a person who drives through Germany frequently I am yet to see an aggressive driver on the Autobahn. My point? Anecdotes don't prove anything. One person says that Germans are aggressive, another says they aren't. We need hard data instead.

by cfstras 12y ago

Cakez0r 12y ago

I think it would work to just make the inside lane unrestricted and only have speed limits on the outer lanes. That way, slow and fast drivers aren't endangering each other because they're in completely separate streams of traffic.

cfstras 12y ago
Except that could encourage people to stay out of the right lanes -- leading to confusion or wasted lanes when trying to pass people, which happens all the time. If you closely watch a german highway, there are 2 to 3 lanes (per direction) for the most part, and the speeds are quite consistent: The rightmost lane is full of trucks going 60 mph (90-100 km/h), while the middle lane is going around 80 mph (130 km/h), which is the advised speed, or Richtgeschwindigkeit. The leftmost lane is left exclusively for passing slower cars and those going 100+ mph (160+ km/h).

chadgeidel 12y ago

I'm sure you hear this all the time, but it's my understanding that US drivers are not nearly as well "trained" as German drivers. Anecdata, yes yes. It's trivially easy to acquire and maintain a driving permit here in the States, and it shows. (US citizen here - I don't know about German drivers, but of course the skills of Germans are legendary. The automotive media tells us all German drivers are as skilled as Walter Röhrl. I'm only partially kidding.)

pinaceae 12y ago
they're not that much better, you still have seniors, old ladies in a hat, etc. driving. the initial steps to obtain a driver's license are much harder than in the US, that's correct.
cfstras 12y ago
There is some truth to that, we have more training: 14x 45min of theory school-style lessons and at least 12x 45min of practice with a certified driving instructor. Also, the minimum age to be driving on the road is 17, and you have to be accompanied by someone 21+ until you are 18. The skills here are not legendary per se; the mean might be a bit better. The difference is that people seem to have more respect for other drivers and dangers on the road, creating more awareness overall. But still, I think allowing skilled drivers to drive faster would do no harm to the population, if the faster people stick to the guidelines. For example: you do see the occasional snail moving in the left highway lane, but it won't be long until he is ushered away by some faster car with some furious flashes of the brights.
mturmon 12y ago
There are also very high standards (strict regular inspections) regarding vehicle maintenance. US citizens would never put up with that.
driverdan 12y ago
Ding ding ding! The solution is better driver training and mandatory retesting for all drivers at regular intervals. So many drivers of all ages are absolutely terrible. Everyone should be able to go 85 MPH on a six lane highway but you can't because there are so many bad drivers. Driving is not a right and it should not be treated that way.

cylinder 12y ago

Yes, the main point is that I pay more attention when driving faster on a freeway. One need only take a road trip in Australia to see how ridiculous low speed limits on open roads are. 110 kmh limit with, yes, very strong enforcement in place, in a completely rural area with few cars around, no people, no pedestrians, on a long drive (it's ten hours from Melbourne to Sydney with basically nothing in between). Result -- zone out on cruise control, look at your phone, talk to others in the car, etc. Focus on the road? Nope.

cfstras 12y ago
Exactly -- sure, you can still hide behind a truck and go 100 km/h all the time -- but most cars efficiency sweet spot is around 130 km/h, and driving at that speed leads to more dynamic, occasionally passing trucks, etc.
- gnur 12y ago
  What is an "efficency sweet spot"? When I consistently drive at the speed limit (in the Netherlands, 120km/h) I have to fill up every 4 working days. When I consistently drive 100 km/h I only have to fill up every 5 working days. Takes 20% longer but the tank also lasts 20% longer.
  - gambiting 12y ago
    Depends on the car. If you have a tiny engine, then it will use large amounts of fuel at high speeds. If you have a large engine, it will use less. My personal experience: Peugeot Partner 2.0 HDi - 6-7l/100km when driving in city traffic, 12-13l/100km when driving at 140km/h, Land Rover Discovery 3 4.4L V8 - 15-16l/100km when driving in city traffic, 9-10l/100km when driving at 140km/h. Basically your engine should stay below 3000rpm - if you have to keep it at 4000rpm just to maintain a certain speed then it's too much for the engine and it's not being efficient.
  - cfstras 12y ago
    It really depends on the car. I mostly drive rentals, in the range of Ford Fiesta to Opel Astra -- all of them fell in that range.

goodcanadian 12y ago

On a perhaps related note, a road I used to drive regularly had many curves and signs warning you to slow down at each one. Only one of the curves actually required you to slow down to navigate it safely. Guess which corner was where all of the accidents happened? If you "cry wolf" too often, people will ignore the speed limit (or caution signs or whatever). If, however, the speed limit is usually appropriate, people will take note when it changes, and drive appropriately.

skrause 12y ago

I'm also German and I would like to have a general speed limit on highways. Your theory sounds all nice and works if you drive on empty roads, but as soon as there's a bit of traffic the lack of a speed limit results in a very stressful and uncomfortable driving. The main problem is the speed difference between the individual lanes. On the right lane you have the trucks which are limited to 90 km/h by law, so that's the maximum speed you can usually drive on that lane. Now most highways only have two or three lanes. No speed limit usually results in a difference of at least 40 km/h between lanes and always-changing speeds because of traffic. Driving in a small car with a low-power engine is no fun at all, your only choices are getting stuck behind trucks at 90 km/h or a constant speeding up, slowing down, switching lanes and pushing your car to its limit. My personal theory is that this is one of the main reasons why German drivers are so aggressive. The drivers most in favor of no speed limit are usually also the most aggressive.

ajmurmann 12y ago
It depends on the Autobahn. I strongly felt what you described on pretty much any Autobahn around cologne where there always was a lot traffic and many on and off ramps. However, my ride usually would take me from there onto the 44(?) towards Paderborn and there was no speed limit and it was a joy even in an old Golf 2. There were very few on and off ramps and moderate traffic. My car would be able to speed up to ~220km/h over the course of several minutes, but it was so worth it.
gambiting 12y ago
>>My personal theory is that this is one of the main reasons why German drivers are so aggressive. AS a person who drives through Germany frequently I am yet to see an aggressive driver on the Autobahn. My point? Anecdotes don't prove anything. One person says that Germans are aggressive, another says they aren't. We need hard data instead.