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This is inherent in BTC. How can you have anonymous transactions and still avoid fraud?

by judk 12y ago

nitrogen 12y ago
This isn't BTC fraud, it's CC fraud with a traceable shipping address.
- dublinben 12y ago
  The recipient associated with the shipping address hasn't committed any fraud though.
  - sanswork 12y ago
    Best case scenario they get the stolen property taken off them and they are out the bitcoins. Worst case how do they prove they weren't the buyer?
    - dublinben 12y ago
      It's not stolen property though, it's property purchased with (presumably) fraudulent credit card details. They can prove they're not the buyer, because the buyer has a completely different name.
      - sanswork 12y ago
        It's property that has been sent without payment received. It's stolen. >They can prove they're not the buyer, because the buyer has a completely different name. It doesn't matter the fraudulently purchased goods were shipped to your house. You are in possession of them and you're the person most likely to have committed the credit card fraud. Either way you are out the property even if you don't get investigated for credit card fraud. Do it a few times though and it will be difficult to explain away.
        dublinben 12y ago
        If it ever came to trial, there would be no proof that you'd been the one that committed the fraud. That's where the burden of proof lies, and there's simply no evidence.
        sanswork 12y ago
        There would be a lot of evidence though. The fact that on multiple occasions items purchased with stolen credit cards were sent to you and you had not returned those items implying you were expecting them. You'd have to come up with evidence to prove it wasn't you that ordered it and good luck with that.
        newaccountfool 12y ago
        Your assuming that the buyer(Purchase of say electronics) is aware how the sellers get there goods, and your just assuming all items are carded. What happens if you linked the website on Facebook and people were like "Oh crap this is cheap" and go buy buy buy. The whole 'if its to good to be true it is' isn't going to stand up in court. The prosecution will have to prove that you knew the good where fraudulently purchased. Who know some people may use this as a legit alternative to Amazon, thinking all the items are legit (which they may well be).
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        sanswork 12y ago
        I'm not assuming they are all carded. I'm assuming most will be. The discounts asked for on the site make it stupid for people to buy bitcoin with it with legitimate cards. Then they'd likely end up with a bunch of carded stuff too. As I said before best case situation you have to return everything you were sent and you lose your bitcoins in the process. Worse case you get an overzealous prosecutor that goes after you and tries to make the case that the number of carded things showing up at your address and claimed by you proves you were the one doing the carding. Would they win? Who knows but it'd certainly cost you more than you'd ever save to win yourself and you'd still lose the products in the short term.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

This is inherent in BTC. How can you have anonymous transactions and still avoid fraud?

by judk 12y ago

This is inherent in BTC. How can you have anonymous transactions and still avoid fraud?

nitrogen 12y ago

This isn't BTC fraud, it's CC fraud with a traceable shipping address.

dublinben 12y ago
The recipient associated with the shipping address hasn't committed any fraud though.
- sanswork 12y ago
  Best case scenario they get the stolen property taken off them and they are out the bitcoins. Worst case how do they prove they weren't the buyer?
  - dublinben 12y ago
    It's not stolen property though, it's property purchased with (presumably) fraudulent credit card details. They can prove they're not the buyer, because the buyer has a completely different name.
    - sanswork 12y ago
      It's property that has been sent without payment received. It's stolen. >They can prove they're not the buyer, because the buyer has a completely different name. It doesn't matter the fraudulently purchased goods were shipped to your house. You are in possession of them and you're the person most likely to have committed the credit card fraud. Either way you are out the property even if you don't get investigated for credit card fraud. Do it a few times though and it will be difficult to explain away.
      - dublinben 12y ago
        If it ever came to trial, there would be no proof that you'd been the one that committed the fraud. That's where the burden of proof lies, and there's simply no evidence.
        sanswork 12y ago
        There would be a lot of evidence though. The fact that on multiple occasions items purchased with stolen credit cards were sent to you and you had not returned those items implying you were expecting them. You'd have to come up with evidence to prove it wasn't you that ordered it and good luck with that.
        newaccountfool 12y ago
        Your assuming that the buyer(Purchase of say electronics) is aware how the sellers get there goods, and your just assuming all items are carded. What happens if you linked the website on Facebook and people were like "Oh crap this is cheap" and go buy buy buy. The whole 'if its to good to be true it is' isn't going to stand up in court. The prosecution will have to prove that you knew the good where fraudulently purchased. Who know some people may use this as a legit alternative to Amazon, thinking all the items are legit (which they may well be).
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        sanswork 12y ago
        I'm not assuming they are all carded. I'm assuming most will be. The discounts asked for on the site make it stupid for people to buy bitcoin with it with legitimate cards. Then they'd likely end up with a bunch of carded stuff too. As I said before best case situation you have to return everything you were sent and you lose your bitcoins in the process. Worse case you get an overzealous prosecutor that goes after you and tries to make the case that the number of carded things showing up at your address and claimed by you proves you were the one doing the carding. Would they win? Who knows but it'd certainly cost you more than you'd ever save to win yourself and you'd still lose the products in the short term.
deleted 12y ago
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