8 ms·

Accepted to a well-known accelerator in Fall, but B1 visa to the US denied

5 points by techtivist 12y ago

I will be attending a well-known (obviously not YC) accelerator in US in the fall. But my B1 visa was just denied under section 214b, for apparently "not having convincing reason to returning". What are my options here? Would appreciate help from any immigrant entrepreneurs out there.

Someone1234 12y ago
Unfortunately after a denial it is much harder to apply again as they'll check your previous application and look for alterations (i.e. lies or additions). A business accelerator doesn't really fall into any one visa category well. Is it a 2-3 month "business meeting" (i.e. B-1), is it educational (i.e. F-1), or even a "short course" eligible under a travel visa (B-2)? All of the above? The reason you got denied is as it says, and while you can re-apply providing more evidence it will be an uphill battle. You just have to show WHY you'll be returning home (e.g. family, a job, other obligations)? By any chance did you list yourself as self-employed, rather than an employee of your own company? They hate self-employed people and often treat them as "unemployed."
- techtivist 12y ago
  Thanks for the response. The USCIS website actually now says that being in an accelerator is fine with a B1, and in fact if the accelerator has fixed start and end date that can act as a proof that I will return home after the accelerator ends. Look at http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/und... under "How do I show that I intend to remain for a limited time?", it's the 3rd point. Silly me, I didn't see that before the interview. Anyways, my interviewer was new and had no idea what an accelerator was. What I am doing now is interviewing in another city, with the same application, albeit with added true information that would support why I want to come back, which I honestly do in the short term as my parents are unwell. The city I interviewed in first has almost no startups, so they have never encountered a situation like this before. This time I am interviewing in a city that has a history of sending startups to US accelerators including YC and Techstars. Let's see, I am interviewing this week. Taking all documents including my parents medical documents and a printout of the page above. Fingers crossed!
vishalzone2002 12y ago
Sorry to hear that. You are better off talking to the accelerator and see if they could move you to another batch. B1 visa is a tricky visa. You need to have clear reasons for returning back to your country. You can show them any liquid and non-liquid asset that you own, maybe an inc. company,etc.
- techtivist 12y ago
  Thanks, I am going to give it another try. My first thought was to register the company here, but it takes 2 months to do so! But worse comes to worst, I will have to do that and ask the accelerator to move be to a different batch.
atroyn 12y ago
What country are you from? Is the visa waiver program available to you?
- mataniko 12y ago
  Even if your country is a participant in the VWP program, once you got denied a visa you're no longer eligible for entry under the VWP
  - atroyn 12y ago
    This is not true.
    - mataniko 12y ago
      Please don't provide advice on things you're not sure of such as the VWP. http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-waiver-program.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-wai... look under "Previous Compliance and No Prior Visa Ineligibilities"
      - atroyn 12y ago
        Please don't assume I'm unsure of it, I am speaking from my own experience as a foreign founder who travelled to the U.S last year, including 3 separate entries at 3 different airports under the Visa waiver program after a B1/B2 refusal. I also helped bring in the rest of my team under B1 and E3 visas, including one team member who was at one point flagged by CBP and had to re-enter under the B1 rather than the VWP.
        falsestprophet 12y ago
        How did you bring in team members to work in the country on a B1 visa? That is expressly forbidden.
        12y ago
Spoom 12y ago
They want to see ties to your current country, i.e., reasons why you NEED to leave the US to return after your accelerator program is complete. Do you have a lease? Are you a current student? Do you have family remaining in your home country? Do you have other non-negotiable responsibilities in your home country? B1 is a non-immigrant visa; you need to convince them that you are not going to attempt to immigrate.
- zura 12y ago
  Interesting. So if you decide to immigrate with B1, you have to do so illegally, right? And in this case your only option is blue collar jobs. But someone with enough knowledge and skills who is able to get into some accelerator program obviously won't go for these kind of jobs... But in case if it is possible to legally immigrate with B1, then what's the problem?
  - Spoom 12y ago
    If you decide to immigrate with a B1, you generally have to return home first and apply for an immigrant visa, unless you fall into a category whereby you can immediately file for an Adjustment of Status (which is almost certain to cause red flags to go up at USCIS). There are certain visa classes that are considered "dual-intent"[1], meaning that you can have the intent to immigrate while obtaining a formally non-immigrant visa. One such visa is the K-1 fiance(e) visa, which allows one to enter the United States for the purpose of marrying one's US Citizen fiance(e) within 90 days and subsequently applying for an Adjustment of Status (i.e. green card). The B class is not one of these, so you need to overcome the immigration / CBP officer's presumption that you intent to immigrate[2]. OP: Note that you are free to reapply for the visa; make sure you read the instructions on the form and fulfill the evidence requirements as much as possible. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Requirement_to_overcome_presumption_of_intending_immigrant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Requirement_to_overcome_...
    - zura 12y ago
      I was asking about the concern of immigration officer - why should they have this presumption if you're, say, an experienced software engineer or similarly high skilled educated professional. Nobody with these skillset are going to stay somewhere illegally and work [without permit] in "dirty"/heavy job space.
dennybritz 12y ago
Where are you from? Why did you apply for a B visa instead of taking a tourist visa (or visa waiver)?
- Spoom 12y ago
  B is the tourist / work visa class, and not every country is on the visa waiver program.
  - techtivist 12y ago
    Exactly, my country isn't on the visa waiver program. So B1(/B2) is my only option.
phaus 12y ago
Gotta love our Visa system. Oh, you play videogames professionally? Have a Visa! Oh, you are starting a business? Our economy's bad, but we like it that way. Starting a business might change that. Why don't you learn to play League of Legends or become a fashion model and then try again?
hpagey 12y ago
Attending an accelerator on B1 visa is always a dicey proposition. On B1, you are not allowed to gainfully employed, i.e. you cannot run a company but you can conduct activities like, a) attending meetings, b) Solicit sales or investment c) Make investments or purchases d) Interview or hire staff, etc etc. As you can see the line is very thin between whats allowed and whats not.
- techtivist 12y ago
  Yeah, but it's getting better now even if informally. See this link http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/und... under "How do I show that I intend to remain for a limited time?" It explicitly mentions accelerators. As long as you are not "employed" by the company, or more specifically the US incorporated entity, it's okay. The problem is that there's no "directive" as such, so a lot depends on the interviewer one has, because it's so subjective. Mine was new and had never heard of what an accelerator was. He thought it was an MBA! But there's no scope for an appeal, one has to reapply and pay the hefty application fee again!

5 points by techtivist 12y ago

Someone1234 12y ago

Unfortunately after a denial it is much harder to apply again as they'll check your previous application and look for alterations (i.e. lies or additions). A business accelerator doesn't really fall into any one visa category well. Is it a 2-3 month "business meeting" (i.e. B-1), is it educational (i.e. F-1), or even a "short course" eligible under a travel visa (B-2)? All of the above? The reason you got denied is as it says, and while you can re-apply providing more evidence it will be an uphill battle. You just have to show WHY you'll be returning home (e.g. family, a job, other obligations)? By any chance did you list yourself as self-employed, rather than an employee of your own company? They hate self-employed people and often treat them as "unemployed."

techtivist 12y ago
Thanks for the response. The USCIS website actually now says that being in an accelerator is fine with a B1, and in fact if the accelerator has fixed start and end date that can act as a proof that I will return home after the accelerator ends. Look at http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/und... under "How do I show that I intend to remain for a limited time?", it's the 3rd point. Silly me, I didn't see that before the interview. Anyways, my interviewer was new and had no idea what an accelerator was. What I am doing now is interviewing in another city, with the same application, albeit with added true information that would support why I want to come back, which I honestly do in the short term as my parents are unwell. The city I interviewed in first has almost no startups, so they have never encountered a situation like this before. This time I am interviewing in a city that has a history of sending startups to US accelerators including YC and Techstars. Let's see, I am interviewing this week. Taking all documents including my parents medical documents and a printout of the page above. Fingers crossed!

vishalzone2002 12y ago

Sorry to hear that. You are better off talking to the accelerator and see if they could move you to another batch. B1 visa is a tricky visa. You need to have clear reasons for returning back to your country. You can show them any liquid and non-liquid asset that you own, maybe an inc. company,etc.

techtivist 12y ago
Thanks, I am going to give it another try. My first thought was to register the company here, but it takes 2 months to do so! But worse comes to worst, I will have to do that and ask the accelerator to move be to a different batch.

atroyn 12y ago

What country are you from? Is the visa waiver program available to you?

mataniko 12y ago
Even if your country is a participant in the VWP program, once you got denied a visa you're no longer eligible for entry under the VWP
- atroyn 12y ago
  This is not true.
  - mataniko 12y ago
    Please don't provide advice on things you're not sure of such as the VWP. http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-waiver-program.html http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/visit/visa-wai... look under "Previous Compliance and No Prior Visa Ineligibilities"
    - atroyn 12y ago
      Please don't assume I'm unsure of it, I am speaking from my own experience as a foreign founder who travelled to the U.S last year, including 3 separate entries at 3 different airports under the Visa waiver program after a B1/B2 refusal. I also helped bring in the rest of my team under B1 and E3 visas, including one team member who was at one point flagged by CBP and had to re-enter under the B1 rather than the VWP.
      - falsestprophet 12y ago
        How did you bring in team members to work in the country on a B1 visa? That is expressly forbidden.
        12y ago

Spoom 12y ago

They want to see ties to your current country, i.e., reasons why you NEED to leave the US to return after your accelerator program is complete. Do you have a lease? Are you a current student? Do you have family remaining in your home country? Do you have other non-negotiable responsibilities in your home country? B1 is a non-immigrant visa; you need to convince them that you are not going to attempt to immigrate.

zura 12y ago
Interesting. So if you decide to immigrate with B1, you have to do so illegally, right? And in this case your only option is blue collar jobs. But someone with enough knowledge and skills who is able to get into some accelerator program obviously won't go for these kind of jobs... But in case if it is possible to legally immigrate with B1, then what's the problem?
- Spoom 12y ago
  If you decide to immigrate with a B1, you generally have to return home first and apply for an immigrant visa, unless you fall into a category whereby you can immediately file for an Adjustment of Status (which is almost certain to cause red flags to go up at USCIS). There are certain visa classes that are considered "dual-intent"[1], meaning that you can have the intent to immigrate while obtaining a formally non-immigrant visa. One such visa is the K-1 fiance(e) visa, which allows one to enter the United States for the purpose of marrying one's US Citizen fiance(e) within 90 days and subsequently applying for an Adjustment of Status (i.e. green card). The B class is not one of these, so you need to overcome the immigration / CBP officer's presumption that you intent to immigrate[2]. OP: Note that you are free to reapply for the visa; make sure you read the instructions on the form and fulfill the evidence requirements as much as possible. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Requirement_to_overcome_presumption_of_intending_immigrant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_visa#Requirement_to_overcome_...
  - zura 12y ago
    I was asking about the concern of immigration officer - why should they have this presumption if you're, say, an experienced software engineer or similarly high skilled educated professional. Nobody with these skillset are going to stay somewhere illegally and work [without permit] in "dirty"/heavy job space.

dennybritz 12y ago

Where are you from? Why did you apply for a B visa instead of taking a tourist visa (or visa waiver)?

Spoom 12y ago
B is the tourist / work visa class, and not every country is on the visa waiver program.
- techtivist 12y ago
  Exactly, my country isn't on the visa waiver program. So B1(/B2) is my only option.

phaus 12y ago

Gotta love our Visa system. Oh, you play videogames professionally? Have a Visa! Oh, you are starting a business? Our economy's bad, but we like it that way. Starting a business might change that. Why don't you learn to play League of Legends or become a fashion model and then try again?

hpagey 12y ago

Attending an accelerator on B1 visa is always a dicey proposition. On B1, you are not allowed to gainfully employed, i.e. you cannot run a company but you can conduct activities like, a) attending meetings, b) Solicit sales or investment c) Make investments or purchases d) Interview or hire staff, etc etc. As you can see the line is very thin between whats allowed and whats not.

techtivist 12y ago
Yeah, but it's getting better now even if informally. See this link http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/understanding-b-1-requirements http://www.uscis.gov/eir/visa-guide/b-1-business-visitor/und... under "How do I show that I intend to remain for a limited time?" It explicitly mentions accelerators. As long as you are not "employed" by the company, or more specifically the US incorporated entity, it's okay. The problem is that there's no "directive" as such, so a lot depends on the interviewer one has, because it's so subjective. Mine was new and had never heard of what an accelerator was. He thought it was an MBA! But there's no scope for an appeal, one has to reapply and pay the hefty application fee again!