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What a horrible policy, it won't end well for them. http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-street-guest-house-hudson?sort_by=rating_asc http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-st

by dm2 12y ago

What a horrible policy, it won't end well for them. http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-street-guest-house-hudson?sort_by=rating_asc http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-street-guest-house-hudson?sort... 10 negative Yelp reviews have been posted today (so far), ouch... http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g47931-d490934-Reviews-Union_Street_Guest_House-Hudson_New_York.html#REVIEWS http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g47931-d490934-Revie... Their website navigation is a very discrete image map in the middle of the page, http://www.unionstreetguesthouse.com/ http://www.unionstreetguesthouse.com/ obviously this was someone's first website. It's probably not legal, if it is then it is unenforceable in court, even if it was in their terms contract. Here is the page with their $500 review fee policy: http://www.unionstreetguesthouse.com/events_weddings.shtml http://www.unionstreetguesthouse.com/events_weddings.shtml I don't condone leaving negative reviews if you haven't stayed there, but if you do be sure to note that you have not stayed at the hotel and are just commenting on their policies to warn people, unless that is against the review sites policy, then don't do that.

yread 12y ago
Nice: If you have booked the Inn for a wedding or other type of event anywhere in the region and given us a deposit of any kind for guests to stay at USGH there will be a $500 fine that will be deducted from your deposit for every negative review of USGH placed on any internet site by anyone in your party and/or attending your wedding or event If you stay here to attend a wedding anywhere in the area and leave us a negative review on any internet site you agree to a $500. fine for each negative review. (Please NOTE we will not charge this fee &/or will refund this fee once the review is taken down). Also, please note that we only request this of wedding parties and for the reasons explained above.
- dspillett 12y ago
  > for the reasons explained above Being lazy and not reading it myself: do they attempt to adequately explain the policy other than "we'd like to be able to be dickish without getting bad reviews" in "the reasons explained above"? (edit for those only reading this far: it appears that they do, see the replies to this post for detail)
  - zorrb 12y ago
    "Please know that despite the fact that wedding couples love Hudson and our Inn, your friends and families may not. This is due to the fact that your guests may not understand what we offer - therefore we expect you to explain that to them. USGH & Hudson are historic. The buildings here are old (but restored). Our bathrooms and kitchens are designed to look old in an artistic "vintage" way. Our furniture is mostly hip, period furniture that you would see in many design magazines. (although comfortable and functional - obviously all beds are brand new) If your guests are looking for a Marriott type hotel they may not like it here."
    - eli 12y ago
      I actually kinda see where they're coming from. I'm sure they do get complaints from people who never stay anywhere besides upscale chain hotels. But obviously this is not the way to address the issue. It's mean and ultimately self-defeating.
      - dm2 12y ago
        A piece of paper asking guests to keep this in mind when giving reviews would suffice. A company that threatens to fine me for giving them a negative review is much more likely to actually receive a negative review from me.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        Silhouette 12y ago
        A company that threatens to fine me for giving them a negative review is much more likely to actually receive a negative review from me. And a company that actually fines me would be much more likely to receive a chargeback, formal complaints to any relevant regulators, or even for that kind of money a small claims suit. I'm not really sure how they expect to win with this policy, particularly since they're presumably about to get more negative publicity than every bad review they ever avoided and searching for them on-line will probably lead to dozens of critical comments forever now.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- padobson 12y ago
  If anyone tries to say we suck, you're gonna pay. Otherwise, we might actually have to get better at our jobs!
witty_username 12y ago
It has to be unenforceable in court because how would you know the guest actually posted the comment and not someone else masquerading.
Vik1ng 12y ago
10 negative Yelp reviews have been posted today (so far), ouch... What's Yelps policy towards such fake reviews? Obviously most of those people have never been to that place.
- 67726e 12y ago
  I went through and read them all and they don't exactly seem "fake" in that the reviewer doesn't claim to have visited to the location. They are all complaining about the policies and attitude of the place, which can pretty well be gleaned from reading the policies on the site.
  - Vik1ng 12y ago
    So you think it is valid to leave a 1 star review for a restaurant, because you don't like the menu posted in their website?
    - kevinpet 12y ago
      What's the proper response to those handful of restaurants that scam tourists who fail to read the menu charging outrageous prices? If only there were some online site I could find out of a business is a rip off before I patronize it.
    - blisterpeanuts 12y ago
      A more accurate analogy: you read the menu and notice in the fine print at the bottom that they will charge your credit card an extra $25 if you post a bad review of your meal. So you get on Yelp and post a review warning others of the practice. Doesn't that seem like a legitimate use of a review site? Technically, yes, you didn't utilize the service, but that doesn't mean you have no qualifications to comment on the business's bad policies. "I drove to the repair shop, they insulted me with ethnic slur, and I got mad and drove away." Would this not be a legitimate and useful review?
      - Vik1ng 12y ago
chippy 12y ago
off topic, but why don't people use image maps anymore?
- pilsetnieks 12y ago
  Accessibility (probably not so great on a screen-reader,) and SEO (not a proper link with content), I think. Of course, there may be other reasons, too.
- inigoesdr 12y ago
  The largest issue is that you have to re-create them every time you make a change. You have to create an entire new image, and update the coordinates for the map, which is arduous. They are also not very mobile-friendly, tend to waste a lot of bandwidth on the filler space, and you are somewhat limited in what you can do with the link shapes. It's much more efficient and cleaner to create the elements separately so you can easily update them, and they can scale better. Also, SEO as the other responder mentioned.
- untog 12y ago
  Accessibility was always a concern, and mobile is probably now another one. You'd have to recreate the image for mobile screens, re-map it...
bigtunacan 12y ago
LOL; they have more than 300 negative reviews so far today now. Coming soon: The Hotel Formerly Known as Union Street Guest House
DannyBee 12y ago
"It's probably not legal, if it is then it is unenforceable in court, even if it was in their terms contract. " Could you explain why you believe this? The main issue i would see here would be liquidated damages issues, not something like SLAPP (at least in most states).
- vitd 12y ago
  I'm not the original poster you're responding to, but it seems odd to say, "if any of your friends do <something>, you'll be fined." It would make sense if it were something physical like vandalizing the hotel while they were at my party (possibly - depending on the circumstances). But if your friend from the party comes back 2 weeks later and vandalizes the hotel, should you still be liable? That's kind of what this feels like. I didn't tell them to write a review. They genuinely didn't like your product or service. Why am I being fined just because they booked a room for my party? Maybe my friend has a legitimate complaint that isn't about how old the furniture looks (which is what this appears to be about). What if your staff was actually very rude, or the room wasn't up to the quality listed on the web site? It seems unenforceable to a lay-person because it puts the burden of controlling third parties we can't control on us. If I go someplace for a friend's party and the friend tells me not to post a bad review of it if I don't like it, I'm going to tell my friend to fuck off and write whatever review I want. He has no say in the matter. So it seems bizarre that you can even legally agree to something over which you have no control. It feels equivalent to saying that you agree to pay a fine if it rains while you're staying at our hotel. (That very well may be enforceable - but it seems odd to the layperson that it could be because you can't predict it ahead of time and can't control whether it happens.) It's simply an example of the law making no sense to the people it applies to.
  - DannyBee 12y ago
    "Why am I being fined just because they booked a room for my party? " Because you agreed to those terms? Just because you agreed to a crappy deal for you doesn't get you out of it. If you don't like it, don't take the deal? We are talking about wedding receptions, it's not like random hotel guests. These have real contracts, deposits, etc (and they said they take it out of your deposit). "It seems unenforceable to a lay-person because it puts the burden of controlling third parties we can't control on us. " This is incredibly common. For example, almost every contract you would ever sign for selling software, etc will say something like "you agree to indemnify us if a third party sues us over intellectual property issues in your software". This is clearly enforceable in almost all cases. You have literally no control over who chooses to sue them. As for not making sense, the law makes perfect sense in this sort of case - you may freely contract for almost anything.
frogpelt 12y ago
I feel bad for the unlucky bride and groom racking up all these $500 charges today.
- dm2 12y ago
  It's at 400 negative reviews after 3 hours, nobody is getting charged anything, if they do they'll sue and the hotel will receive even more negative publicity. Looks like it hit Reddit, that's why it jumped so quickly, http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2ckx8i/hotel_charges_500_for_a_bad_review/ http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2ckx8i/hotel_cha...
  - frogpelt 12y ago
    I apologize for the apparent lack of humor or the humorous lack of apparentness in my joke.
gamblor956 12y ago
Just thought I'd pop in a point out that fines in a contract are perfectly enforceable in the U.S. Liquidated damages provisions are not. A $500 fine per negative review doesn't reflect the hotel's actual or liquidated damages in any way, so the provision would pass muster in court. For example, penalties for late payments of bills are examples of contractual fines that have been upheld by the courts many times. Whether or not the fines at issue here are bad business practice depends on how you feel about the justification for the fines.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dm2 12y ago
Hah, now the hotel's management is claiming to news sites that it's policy was a "joke" and that they have removed their policy. What a blatant lie, they deserve to go out of business. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101891812 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101891812 Does that mean that in court everything in their contract should be considered a joke?

by dm2 12y ago

yread 12y ago

Nice: If you have booked the Inn for a wedding or other type of event anywhere in the region and given us a deposit of any kind for guests to stay at USGH there will be a $500 fine that will be deducted from your deposit for every negative review of USGH placed on any internet site by anyone in your party and/or attending your wedding or event If you stay here to attend a wedding anywhere in the area and leave us a negative review on any internet site you agree to a $500. fine for each negative review. (Please NOTE we will not charge this fee &/or will refund this fee once the review is taken down). Also, please note that we only request this of wedding parties and for the reasons explained above.

dspillett 12y ago
> for the reasons explained above Being lazy and not reading it myself: do they attempt to adequately explain the policy other than "we'd like to be able to be dickish without getting bad reviews" in "the reasons explained above"? (edit for those only reading this far: it appears that they do, see the replies to this post for detail)
- zorrb 12y ago
  "Please know that despite the fact that wedding couples love Hudson and our Inn, your friends and families may not. This is due to the fact that your guests may not understand what we offer - therefore we expect you to explain that to them. USGH & Hudson are historic. The buildings here are old (but restored). Our bathrooms and kitchens are designed to look old in an artistic "vintage" way. Our furniture is mostly hip, period furniture that you would see in many design magazines. (although comfortable and functional - obviously all beds are brand new) If your guests are looking for a Marriott type hotel they may not like it here."
  - eli 12y ago
    I actually kinda see where they're coming from. I'm sure they do get complaints from people who never stay anywhere besides upscale chain hotels. But obviously this is not the way to address the issue. It's mean and ultimately self-defeating.
    - dm2 12y ago
      A piece of paper asking guests to keep this in mind when giving reviews would suffice. A company that threatens to fine me for giving them a negative review is much more likely to actually receive a negative review from me.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - Silhouette 12y ago
        A company that threatens to fine me for giving them a negative review is much more likely to actually receive a negative review from me. And a company that actually fines me would be much more likely to receive a chargeback, formal complaints to any relevant regulators, or even for that kind of money a small claims suit. I'm not really sure how they expect to win with this policy, particularly since they're presumably about to get more negative publicity than every bad review they ever avoided and searching for them on-line will probably lead to dozens of critical comments forever now.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
padobson 12y ago
If anyone tries to say we suck, you're gonna pay. Otherwise, we might actually have to get better at our jobs!

witty_username 12y ago

It has to be unenforceable in court because how would you know the guest actually posted the comment and not someone else masquerading.

Vik1ng 12y ago

10 negative Yelp reviews have been posted today (so far), ouch... What's Yelps policy towards such fake reviews? Obviously most of those people have never been to that place.

67726e 12y ago
I went through and read them all and they don't exactly seem "fake" in that the reviewer doesn't claim to have visited to the location. They are all complaining about the policies and attitude of the place, which can pretty well be gleaned from reading the policies on the site.
- Vik1ng 12y ago
  So you think it is valid to leave a 1 star review for a restaurant, because you don't like the menu posted in their website?
  - kevinpet 12y ago
    What's the proper response to those handful of restaurants that scam tourists who fail to read the menu charging outrageous prices? If only there were some online site I could find out of a business is a rip off before I patronize it.
  - blisterpeanuts 12y ago
    A more accurate analogy: you read the menu and notice in the fine print at the bottom that they will charge your credit card an extra $25 if you post a bad review of your meal. So you get on Yelp and post a review warning others of the practice. Doesn't that seem like a legitimate use of a review site? Technically, yes, you didn't utilize the service, but that doesn't mean you have no qualifications to comment on the business's bad policies. "I drove to the repair shop, they insulted me with ethnic slur, and I got mad and drove away." Would this not be a legitimate and useful review?
    - Vik1ng 12y ago

chippy 12y ago

off topic, but why don't people use image maps anymore?

pilsetnieks 12y ago
Accessibility (probably not so great on a screen-reader,) and SEO (not a proper link with content), I think. Of course, there may be other reasons, too.
inigoesdr 12y ago
The largest issue is that you have to re-create them every time you make a change. You have to create an entire new image, and update the coordinates for the map, which is arduous. They are also not very mobile-friendly, tend to waste a lot of bandwidth on the filler space, and you are somewhat limited in what you can do with the link shapes. It's much more efficient and cleaner to create the elements separately so you can easily update them, and they can scale better. Also, SEO as the other responder mentioned.
untog 12y ago
Accessibility was always a concern, and mobile is probably now another one. You'd have to recreate the image for mobile screens, re-map it...

bigtunacan 12y ago

LOL; they have more than 300 negative reviews so far today now. Coming soon: The Hotel Formerly Known as Union Street Guest House

DannyBee 12y ago

"It's probably not legal, if it is then it is unenforceable in court, even if it was in their terms contract. " Could you explain why you believe this? The main issue i would see here would be liquidated damages issues, not something like SLAPP (at least in most states).

vitd 12y ago
I'm not the original poster you're responding to, but it seems odd to say, "if any of your friends do <something>, you'll be fined." It would make sense if it were something physical like vandalizing the hotel while they were at my party (possibly - depending on the circumstances). But if your friend from the party comes back 2 weeks later and vandalizes the hotel, should you still be liable? That's kind of what this feels like. I didn't tell them to write a review. They genuinely didn't like your product or service. Why am I being fined just because they booked a room for my party? Maybe my friend has a legitimate complaint that isn't about how old the furniture looks (which is what this appears to be about). What if your staff was actually very rude, or the room wasn't up to the quality listed on the web site? It seems unenforceable to a lay-person because it puts the burden of controlling third parties we can't control on us. If I go someplace for a friend's party and the friend tells me not to post a bad review of it if I don't like it, I'm going to tell my friend to fuck off and write whatever review I want. He has no say in the matter. So it seems bizarre that you can even legally agree to something over which you have no control. It feels equivalent to saying that you agree to pay a fine if it rains while you're staying at our hotel. (That very well may be enforceable - but it seems odd to the layperson that it could be because you can't predict it ahead of time and can't control whether it happens.) It's simply an example of the law making no sense to the people it applies to.
- DannyBee 12y ago
  "Why am I being fined just because they booked a room for my party? " Because you agreed to those terms? Just because you agreed to a crappy deal for you doesn't get you out of it. If you don't like it, don't take the deal? We are talking about wedding receptions, it's not like random hotel guests. These have real contracts, deposits, etc (and they said they take it out of your deposit). "It seems unenforceable to a lay-person because it puts the burden of controlling third parties we can't control on us. " This is incredibly common. For example, almost every contract you would ever sign for selling software, etc will say something like "you agree to indemnify us if a third party sues us over intellectual property issues in your software". This is clearly enforceable in almost all cases. You have literally no control over who chooses to sue them. As for not making sense, the law makes perfect sense in this sort of case - you may freely contract for almost anything.

frogpelt 12y ago

I feel bad for the unlucky bride and groom racking up all these $500 charges today.

dm2 12y ago
It's at 400 negative reviews after 3 hours, nobody is getting charged anything, if they do they'll sue and the hotel will receive even more negative publicity. Looks like it hit Reddit, that's why it jumped so quickly, http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2ckx8i/hotel_charges_500_for_a_bad_review/ http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2ckx8i/hotel_cha...
- frogpelt 12y ago
  I apologize for the apparent lack of humor or the humorous lack of apparentness in my joke.

gamblor956 12y ago

Just thought I'd pop in a point out that fines in a contract are perfectly enforceable in the U.S. Liquidated damages provisions are not. A $500 fine per negative review doesn't reflect the hotel's actual or liquidated damages in any way, so the provision would pass muster in court. For example, penalties for late payments of bills are examples of contractual fines that have been upheld by the courts many times. Whether or not the fines at issue here are bad business practice depends on how you feel about the justification for the fines.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dm2 12y ago

Hah, now the hotel's management is claiming to news sites that it's policy was a "joke" and that they have removed their policy. What a blatant lie, they deserve to go out of business. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101891812 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101891812 Does that mean that in court everything in their contract should be considered a joke?