5 ms·

Indeed it won't. Microscopy is hardly the bottleneck in hematology; and neither is cell counting, which is already carried on by automated analyzers for the mos

by gone35 12y ago

Indeed it won't. Microscopy is hardly the bottleneck in hematology; and neither is cell counting, which is already carried on by automated analyzers for the most part anyway [1,2]. The problem is the need of differential staining: due to fundamental physical limits, no amount of machine learning can ever distinguish key hematocytes like lymphocytes from granulocytes in raw, unstained samples from microphotographs alone. So unless you use spectroscopy --and there's been some work done on that, eg [3,4]--, you need to spread, fix and stain your sample, each of which take a series of choreographed steps, reagents and considerable skill in controlled conditions to get (minimally) right [5] --hence the need for a lab. So unless they attached a USB microspectrometer to the iPod, or streamlined the existing sample preparation process in a low-cost, fully-portable form; they are just solving the wrong problem. [1] http://www.mlo-online.com/articles/201401/automation-in-hematology-heres-the-state-of-the-art-in-2014.php http://www.mlo-online.com/articles/201401/automation-in-hema... [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18550479 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18550479 [3] http://www.opticsinfobase.org/abstract.cfm?uri=FiO-2008-FWD5 http://www.opticsinfobase.org/abstract.cfm?uri=FiO-2008-FWD5 [4] http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/72/8_MeetingAbstracts/1705 http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstra... [5] http://mmserver.cjp.com/gems/blood/lh.6.1.houwen.pdf http://mmserver.cjp.com/gems/blood/lh.6.1.houwen.pdf

richardbrevig 12y ago
I was wondering about the need for staining. Is there potential that they could stain the blood sample and potentially get a result? I'm speaking relatively hypothetically. This is at least more in the right direction than what I had seen previously. I saw much worse a few months ago at a competition I was in. The winning team "created" a device (that looked like a USB key). They claimed that if you had a sore throat you could take a sample with a q-tip, insert into the device, and it would magically determine the presence of an infection. Those were their words. I was horrified and when I approached the organizers afterwards they didn't understand my explanation on why it was not possible. Indeed, after that time as I have spoken about it most people do not understand that it's not currently possible. Sci-fi blurs the realm of possibility for many and it seems reasonable to them. Back to the actual contest, mine was an "idea competition" and not a YC Hackathon. Tanay's idea is leaps and bounds closer to the realm of possibility than the idea behind the other team I witnessed. For that, his age, and his other work on his startup clipped.me, I congratulate him and look forward to seeing him come up with something truly useful in the future.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ihnorton 12y ago
  The Oxford Nanopore Minion is "usb scale": https://www.nanoporetech.com/technology/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system https://www.nanoporetech.com/technology/the-minion-device-a-... Not quite built in a weekend, but certainly within the realm of possibility.
  - Brakenshire 12y ago
    Just for context, Oxford Nanopore have struggled a fair bit with getting this device to work. They have recently released quite promising prototype devices, but the project is many years behind schedule. Albeit that isn't surprising given what a massive shift in technology it is.
    - ihnorton 12y ago
      Oh, sure, but no one thinks they are violating the laws of physics anymore. It's "just" engineering now to get the accuracy and sustained-read lengths high enough.
    - vobios 12y ago
      Although many years behind schedule, it's still far more advanced than any other sequencing technology on the market.
- vobios 12y ago
  Why is that not possible? A standard home pregnancy test is small, takes a few minutes, and is fairly reliable at detecting human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). If you can find an antibody specific for a particular infection, you can make a similar test. It's mostly useless, but certainly possible.
  - richardbrevig 12y ago
ihnorton 12y ago
The point that you miss is that microscopy is still a bottleneck in developing and rural areas. H&E staining is not that hard, but you are right that maintaining reagents and a clean lab is a logistical challenge. Still, a lot of smart money says the smartphone-pic-to-clinician thing could have a big impact. See Foldscope, for example, which takes this idea to the next level: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0098781 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna... By the way, nice to see a Raman shout-out! Here's a slightly newer Raman paper with some nice pictures (compulsory open-access for the win): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806096/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806096/
- elij 12y ago
  Microscopy is also the limiting factor in _developed_ areas when it comes to urinalysis which I'm sure this solution can easily be adapted for.
- gone35 12y ago
  You are absolutely right: the fact that microscopy is not sufficient doesn't mean it's not necessary in the first place. Besides, a portable microscope would definitely be a boon for other types of clinical work like urianalysis --as elij pointed out-- or plasmodia detection (for some species, at least). I stand corrected.

by gone35 12y ago

richardbrevig 12y ago

I was wondering about the need for staining. Is there potential that they could stain the blood sample and potentially get a result? I'm speaking relatively hypothetically. This is at least more in the right direction than what I had seen previously. I saw much worse a few months ago at a competition I was in. The winning team "created" a device (that looked like a USB key). They claimed that if you had a sore throat you could take a sample with a q-tip, insert into the device, and it would magically determine the presence of an infection. Those were their words. I was horrified and when I approached the organizers afterwards they didn't understand my explanation on why it was not possible. Indeed, after that time as I have spoken about it most people do not understand that it's not currently possible. Sci-fi blurs the realm of possibility for many and it seems reasonable to them. Back to the actual contest, mine was an "idea competition" and not a YC Hackathon. Tanay's idea is leaps and bounds closer to the realm of possibility than the idea behind the other team I witnessed. For that, his age, and his other work on his startup clipped.me, I congratulate him and look forward to seeing him come up with something truly useful in the future.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ihnorton 12y ago
The Oxford Nanopore Minion is "usb scale": https://www.nanoporetech.com/technology/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system/the-minion-device-a-miniaturised-sensing-system https://www.nanoporetech.com/technology/the-minion-device-a-... Not quite built in a weekend, but certainly within the realm of possibility.
- Brakenshire 12y ago
  Just for context, Oxford Nanopore have struggled a fair bit with getting this device to work. They have recently released quite promising prototype devices, but the project is many years behind schedule. Albeit that isn't surprising given what a massive shift in technology it is.
  - ihnorton 12y ago
    Oh, sure, but no one thinks they are violating the laws of physics anymore. It's "just" engineering now to get the accuracy and sustained-read lengths high enough.
  - vobios 12y ago
    Although many years behind schedule, it's still far more advanced than any other sequencing technology on the market.
vobios 12y ago
Why is that not possible? A standard home pregnancy test is small, takes a few minutes, and is fairly reliable at detecting human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG). If you can find an antibody specific for a particular infection, you can make a similar test. It's mostly useless, but certainly possible.
- richardbrevig 12y ago

ihnorton 12y ago

The point that you miss is that microscopy is still a bottleneck in developing and rural areas. H&E staining is not that hard, but you are right that maintaining reagents and a clean lab is a logistical challenge. Still, a lot of smart money says the smartphone-pic-to-clinician thing could have a big impact. See Foldscope, for example, which takes this idea to the next level: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0098781 http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna... By the way, nice to see a Raman shout-out! Here's a slightly newer Raman paper with some nice pictures (compulsory open-access for the win): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806096/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806096/

elij 12y ago
Microscopy is also the limiting factor in _developed_ areas when it comes to urinalysis which I'm sure this solution can easily be adapted for.
gone35 12y ago
You are absolutely right: the fact that microscopy is not sufficient doesn't mean it's not necessary in the first place. Besides, a portable microscope would definitely be a boon for other types of clinical work like urianalysis --as elij pointed out-- or plasmodia detection (for some species, at least). I stand corrected.