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What we end up doing is comparing the apples of present day hygiene etiquette to the oranges of what is remnant of a hygiene system that has worked quite well i

What we end up doing is comparing the apples of present day hygiene etiquette to the oranges of what is remnant of a hygiene system that has worked quite well in its hey days. What is this system is remnant of is; A very sound personal hygiene system followed for centuries, bathing two times a day, washing ones feet before entering a house, not wearing footwear inside one's house, cremating the dead outside the boundaries of the village, designated community space outside the village for natures call, two separate ponds in every village one for bathing (with separate designated bathing steps for women and men) and the other for washing clothes and a special pond inside every village temple for ritual bathing. Population has made the existence of this system impractical but that does not mean people will just change overnight relatively speaking. In fact, up till a few generations back, most Indians would be aghast at the unhygienic notion that one can have a toilet inside one's home! For eg. a reverse bias is, even today a rustic villager in the remotest part of rural India would cringe when he/she hears that the people in the west just wipe but not wash after they do their job (most Indians, even the ones in the west now, secretly do cringe at this idea in fact). Why this notional difference? It could be the relative availability of water, the extremes of weather (cannot wash in icy cold water can you?) and such differences that existed in one's past which moulds one's personal hygiene etiquette.

parennoob 12y ago
Spot on. Your comment hits the other, psychological aspect of the this problem (look at mine for the practical aspect). Correct your formatting a bit though, "What this system is remnant of" is cut off and confusing, "eg." should be "e.g." (for 'example gratia'), etc.
jamesaguilar 12y ago
I can understand the cringe-inducing nature of wiping, but it doesn't actually have negative health consequences. Thus, it is not really comparable.
kamaal 12y ago
>>In fact, up till a few generations back, most Indians would be aghast at the unhygienic notion that one can have a toilet inside one's home! Up till a few generations back, some one's home was clean because some lower class guys were cleaning up while the higher class guy enjoyed their hygiene. Or in other words this was at the expense of other fellow human beings who did all the clean up while one could brag about ancient methods of hygiene. No civilized society would accept such a classification of people in the modern times. So a person is expected to clean their own mess. You are right when you say >>What we end up doing is comparing the apples of present day hygiene etiquette to the oranges of what is remnant of a hygiene system that has worked quite well in its hey days.
- avighnay 12y ago
  Yes and no to the point on 'guys were cleaning up'. Yes, such a travesty did and worse in some places exists still. However, when the practice of relieving oneself in an area designated for that purpose outside the village for public in general, there was no one cleaning it up, it was left to nature. Ironicaly, The job of toilet cleaning started to exist only when the toilets moved closer and closer to home. No, we still do not clean up after us and even today whether we like it or not there are still people in all countries throughout the world who are engaged in the waste disposal industry. Guys who collect garbage at your home every morning, still don't really enjoy it whether they come walking, on tri-cycle or in a ultra modern garbage truck and it is the practice in the best of societies today. Collecting decomposing organic waste of any nature is bad experience for anyone.
  - kamaal 12y ago
    Frankly speaking the problems with that of the lower caste are incomparable with those of Garbage picking personnel today. I'm not saying its an easy task, but there is an economic incentive attached to that today. Garbage pickup in any Indian Metro today is contracted and billed at a reasonable price. There is also a huge incentive to collect stuff plastic, or broken stuff and sell it to recyclers. If I'm not wrong picking up industrial waste for a price is one of the most profitable businesses of the day. As far as I know 'Gujri'[Dump yards] millionaires exist in a city like Bangalore. But its nothing like what the poor souls suffered in the past. Where they were condemned to do it, because they were thought to be born into it. Being denied the right to share the same space with other 'higher castes', not allowed to study, or even at times denied to walk on the same roads as higher castes did, or untouchability. Compare this to the situation today, where in a city like Bangalore the contractors just refuse to pick up the garbage when they are not paid, and your roads will just overflow with filth. This kind of at-will denial of service wouldn't have been imaginable to the lower castes in the past.

parennoob 12y ago

Spot on. Your comment hits the other, psychological aspect of the this problem (look at mine for the practical aspect). Correct your formatting a bit though, "What this system is remnant of" is cut off and confusing, "eg." should be "e.g." (for 'example gratia'), etc.

jamesaguilar 12y ago

I can understand the cringe-inducing nature of wiping, but it doesn't actually have negative health consequences. Thus, it is not really comparable.

kamaal 12y ago

>>In fact, up till a few generations back, most Indians would be aghast at the unhygienic notion that one can have a toilet inside one's home! Up till a few generations back, some one's home was clean because some lower class guys were cleaning up while the higher class guy enjoyed their hygiene. Or in other words this was at the expense of other fellow human beings who did all the clean up while one could brag about ancient methods of hygiene. No civilized society would accept such a classification of people in the modern times. So a person is expected to clean their own mess. You are right when you say >>What we end up doing is comparing the apples of present day hygiene etiquette to the oranges of what is remnant of a hygiene system that has worked quite well in its hey days.

avighnay 12y ago
Yes and no to the point on 'guys were cleaning up'. Yes, such a travesty did and worse in some places exists still. However, when the practice of relieving oneself in an area designated for that purpose outside the village for public in general, there was no one cleaning it up, it was left to nature. Ironicaly, The job of toilet cleaning started to exist only when the toilets moved closer and closer to home. No, we still do not clean up after us and even today whether we like it or not there are still people in all countries throughout the world who are engaged in the waste disposal industry. Guys who collect garbage at your home every morning, still don't really enjoy it whether they come walking, on tri-cycle or in a ultra modern garbage truck and it is the practice in the best of societies today. Collecting decomposing organic waste of any nature is bad experience for anyone.
- kamaal 12y ago
  Frankly speaking the problems with that of the lower caste are incomparable with those of Garbage picking personnel today. I'm not saying its an easy task, but there is an economic incentive attached to that today. Garbage pickup in any Indian Metro today is contracted and billed at a reasonable price. There is also a huge incentive to collect stuff plastic, or broken stuff and sell it to recyclers. If I'm not wrong picking up industrial waste for a price is one of the most profitable businesses of the day. As far as I know 'Gujri'[Dump yards] millionaires exist in a city like Bangalore. But its nothing like what the poor souls suffered in the past. Where they were condemned to do it, because they were thought to be born into it. Being denied the right to share the same space with other 'higher castes', not allowed to study, or even at times denied to walk on the same roads as higher castes did, or untouchability. Compare this to the situation today, where in a city like Bangalore the contractors just refuse to pick up the garbage when they are not paid, and your roads will just overflow with filth. This kind of at-will denial of service wouldn't have been imaginable to the lower castes in the past.