4 ms·

It is disconcerting how difficult we've made it in America to practice law. The law is the cornerstone of our nation. It protects our rights. It compels behavio

It is disconcerting how difficult we've made it in America to practice law. The law is the cornerstone of our nation. It protects our rights. It compels behavior. It is how we as a nation formally decide allowed and prohibited behavior. And yet, you cannot professionally participate in the core of this system without years of school (or perhaps a long apprenticeship). This strikes me as a classic case of using licensing to keep out competition and keep wages high. Imagine how much worse off we'd be as a society if we required a similar system for professionally developing software.

watwut 12y ago
There is no shortage of lawyers in usa. America produce so many lawyers, that they have trouble to find work. Plus, there is no country in a world where law practice does not require years of study.
- nandemo 12y ago
  In many countries (e.g. my home countries Brazil and Japan) you can get in law school like in any other major; no need to have a tertiary degree beforehand. The bar exams are still very hard, so it's not like lawyers aren't qualified.
- gambiting 12y ago
  >>Plus, there is no country in a world where law practice does not require years of study. No, but there are many countries where getting a law degree(or any degree for that matter) doesn't cost you a dime, where you get out of uni with zero debt, not crippling few hundred thousand dollars to pay off.
  - watwut 12y ago
    No arguing with that, really. You are right.
dinkumthinkum 12y ago
Imagine how much worse we would be if we have unqualified lawyers and medical doctors. Hidden in every libertarian geek's logic when it comes to this is stuff is the implicit assumption that the world is is just teaming with autodidact geniuses that have no use schooling. It's fun to think but I don't think reality is cashed out in this way
- e15ctr0n 12y ago
  Qualification == passing the bar exam Schooling == 4 years of law school Qualification != Schooling
  - sliverstorm 12y ago
    You do get more coverage with both though. I mean, we talk on HN all the time about how exams are flawed at measuring knowledge, and can be gamed. School is also flawed and does not guarantee learning, but with both school + exam you can have greater confidence in your candidates...
    - VLM 12y ago
      Going the opposite direction, I grew up in a (the?) state that auto-stamps "pass" on the exam if you graduated from an in-state school. Not a figure of speech, you're auto-admitted if you have an in-state accredited law degree.
      - e15ctr0n 12y ago
        Are you talking about Wisconsin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_privilege
        VLM 12y ago
        Yes although the location isn't as important as the concept that in a discussion of removing one half of "diploma plus test" we have a lot of experience with removal of the other half of the requirement. In practice I don't think the horror stories really matter... if we graduate roughly 2 to 3 times as many new lawyers as there are jobs for them, then by definition we only employ roughly the top 1/2 to top 1/3 of grads, so horror stories about what could theoretically happen if an idiot got past the idiot filter are not entirely relevant if only the far right side of the bell curve will ever get jobs in the field anyway.
snowwrestler 12y ago
The core of the American legal system is legislating, which is open to anyone who can win an election. Lawyers work within the framework that the legislators create. It's possible to work on legislation even without winning an election. You can help shape the law by working in a nonprofit that lobbies. Or you can go to work for a legislator. You can go in the front door by becoming an expert on government policy, or in the back door by working on political campaigns.

watwut 12y ago

There is no shortage of lawyers in usa. America produce so many lawyers, that they have trouble to find work. Plus, there is no country in a world where law practice does not require years of study.

nandemo 12y ago
In many countries (e.g. my home countries Brazil and Japan) you can get in law school like in any other major; no need to have a tertiary degree beforehand. The bar exams are still very hard, so it's not like lawyers aren't qualified.
gambiting 12y ago
>>Plus, there is no country in a world where law practice does not require years of study. No, but there are many countries where getting a law degree(or any degree for that matter) doesn't cost you a dime, where you get out of uni with zero debt, not crippling few hundred thousand dollars to pay off.
- watwut 12y ago
  No arguing with that, really. You are right.

dinkumthinkum 12y ago

Imagine how much worse we would be if we have unqualified lawyers and medical doctors. Hidden in every libertarian geek's logic when it comes to this is stuff is the implicit assumption that the world is is just teaming with autodidact geniuses that have no use schooling. It's fun to think but I don't think reality is cashed out in this way

e15ctr0n 12y ago
Qualification == passing the bar exam Schooling == 4 years of law school Qualification != Schooling
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  You do get more coverage with both though. I mean, we talk on HN all the time about how exams are flawed at measuring knowledge, and can be gamed. School is also flawed and does not guarantee learning, but with both school + exam you can have greater confidence in your candidates...
  - VLM 12y ago
    Going the opposite direction, I grew up in a (the?) state that auto-stamps "pass" on the exam if you graduated from an in-state school. Not a figure of speech, you're auto-admitted if you have an in-state accredited law degree.
    - e15ctr0n 12y ago
      Are you talking about Wisconsin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_privilege
      - VLM 12y ago
        Yes although the location isn't as important as the concept that in a discussion of removing one half of "diploma plus test" we have a lot of experience with removal of the other half of the requirement. In practice I don't think the horror stories really matter... if we graduate roughly 2 to 3 times as many new lawyers as there are jobs for them, then by definition we only employ roughly the top 1/2 to top 1/3 of grads, so horror stories about what could theoretically happen if an idiot got past the idiot filter are not entirely relevant if only the far right side of the bell curve will ever get jobs in the field anyway.

snowwrestler 12y ago

The core of the American legal system is legislating, which is open to anyone who can win an election. Lawyers work within the framework that the legislators create. It's possible to work on legislation even without winning an election. You can help shape the law by working in a nonprofit that lobbies. Or you can go to work for a legislator. You can go in the front door by becoming an expert on government policy, or in the back door by working on political campaigns.