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I'm most likley going to be down-voted into oblivion and called "anti-semetic" even though i'm half semitc. A really serious question, why is it our job to con

I'm most likley going to be down-voted into oblivion and called "anti-semetic" even though i'm half semitc. A really serious question, why is it our job to continue to support Israel? They continue to humiliate John Kerry and Obama. It seems like a one sided deal. We continue to give them whatever they want. And we get absolutely nothing back in return. --- Edit: Hmm, I wonder why this post was shot down so fast.

jonstewart 12y ago
It mostly has to do with Congressional politics, and some electoral politics, too (with Florida being one of the largest swing states and having a significant bloc of pro-Israel voters). As long as politicians get elected by supporting Israel, that's what US policy will be... even if it's not in the nation's interest.
- zvanness 12y ago
  Very good point. It seems to be that they pump in millions to our politicians and get back billions. Millions to billions scheme that ends up causing us a world of headache.
  - nodesolomon 12y ago
    I don't think this will stop, thats just me being pessimist.
  - dragontamer 12y ago
    Russia, UK, Israel, every country has lobbyists in the US. This isn't a problem with their countries, its a problem with our country. Democracy is extremely open to infiltration. Getting rid of Israel won't stop the Russian or Chinese spies who are also lobbying our politicians. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-10-russian-spies-arrested-in-us/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-10-russian-spies-arrested-in... http://www.publicintegrity.org/2005/09/13/6554/china-steps-its-lobbying-game http://www.publicintegrity.org/2005/09/13/6554/china-steps-i... Deal with it. Its the weakness we accept because we choose to be a democracy. We try to have open and transparent government. Naturally, we are going to be weak against foreign infiltration. "Stopping" Israel will do nothing to shore up our defenses.
    - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
      There is no Russian or British lobby even remotely comparable to the Israeli lobby. Its not an issue of "all sides do it", its an issue of "this country has an outsized influence in American politics not comparable to any other country." No one wants to be seen as tough on Israel, because its strongest supports have equated criticizing Israel with anti-Judaism.
- mark_l_watson 12y ago
  I remember reading a long time ago that many people in our government have duel Israeli/USA citizenship. I just did a google search for "USA cabinet members Israeli citizens" and there seem to be a lot of results; one of the first is https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/list-of-politicians-with-israeli-dual-citizenship-/175479365845092 https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/... - about 1/3 of the way down the page is a long list of people in power who likely have dual citizenship. I am not sure why this would even be legal. How can one person be loyal to two countries?
dragontamer 12y ago
Because we are getting things back in return. Israel is a nuclear state with good relations with us. US has weapons contracts which help defend Israel... one of the very very few countries that the US exports to. Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2. So there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US, France, UK, etc. etc.) to watch out for what Israel does today. Ultimately, Israel is a bastion for Western values in the middle east. They take a lot of flak (suicide bombs, etc. etc.) that would be otherwise aimed at Europeans or Americans. Its super-practical for the US to keep Israel strong. Imagine if you will when ISIS establishes itself as a pseudo-country. Do you think ISIS will be more concerned with Israel (who have a military within marching distance), or with Europeans / Americans that they've sworn to destroy half-way around the world? Who will they attack first? Besides, if Israel falls, their nuclear stockpile will cause some major issues.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  Or, alternatively, they are an outpost of European colonialism, which the US should in no means be obligated to defend. Edited to Add: The idea of Zionism was a product of late 19th century colonialism. Hence a lot of pre-WW2 immigration to Palestine was from Europe. I don't think a lot of those early immigrants gave much consideration to the people already living there who weren't Jewish
  - dragontamer 12y ago
    So you're the type to not care about historical or cultural connections between countries. I understand that. But I have there a multi-pronged argument. Please address the other issues if you actually want a serious response. My post wasn't very long, and its such a shame that you were only able to read a subset of it.
- ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
  "Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2." Is demonstrably not true. A substantial amount of immigration was the product of the late 19th century Zionist movement. Ever hear of the Balfour declaration? If Israel is ever in danger of being destroyed, they will undoubtedly use their Sampson option, and probably just nuke the rest of the Middle East (possibly some of Europe as well, and undoubtedly Mecca and Medina). That's not the kind of Western values I support.
nayefc 12y ago
Check http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374531501 http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/037... More on the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Fore...

jonstewart 12y ago

It mostly has to do with Congressional politics, and some electoral politics, too (with Florida being one of the largest swing states and having a significant bloc of pro-Israel voters). As long as politicians get elected by supporting Israel, that's what US policy will be... even if it's not in the nation's interest.

zvanness 12y ago
Very good point. It seems to be that they pump in millions to our politicians and get back billions. Millions to billions scheme that ends up causing us a world of headache.
- nodesolomon 12y ago
  I don't think this will stop, thats just me being pessimist.
- dragontamer 12y ago
  Russia, UK, Israel, every country has lobbyists in the US. This isn't a problem with their countries, its a problem with our country. Democracy is extremely open to infiltration. Getting rid of Israel won't stop the Russian or Chinese spies who are also lobbying our politicians. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-10-russian-spies-arrested-in-us/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-10-russian-spies-arrested-in... http://www.publicintegrity.org/2005/09/13/6554/china-steps-its-lobbying-game http://www.publicintegrity.org/2005/09/13/6554/china-steps-i... Deal with it. Its the weakness we accept because we choose to be a democracy. We try to have open and transparent government. Naturally, we are going to be weak against foreign infiltration. "Stopping" Israel will do nothing to shore up our defenses.
  - ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
    There is no Russian or British lobby even remotely comparable to the Israeli lobby. Its not an issue of "all sides do it", its an issue of "this country has an outsized influence in American politics not comparable to any other country." No one wants to be seen as tough on Israel, because its strongest supports have equated criticizing Israel with anti-Judaism.
mark_l_watson 12y ago
I remember reading a long time ago that many people in our government have duel Israeli/USA citizenship. I just did a google search for "USA cabinet members Israeli citizens" and there seem to be a lot of results; one of the first is https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/list-of-politicians-with-israeli-dual-citizenship-/175479365845092 https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/... - about 1/3 of the way down the page is a long list of people in power who likely have dual citizenship. I am not sure why this would even be legal. How can one person be loyal to two countries?

dragontamer 12y ago

Because we are getting things back in return. Israel is a nuclear state with good relations with us. US has weapons contracts which help defend Israel... one of the very very few countries that the US exports to. Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2. So there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US, France, UK, etc. etc.) to watch out for what Israel does today. Ultimately, Israel is a bastion for Western values in the middle east. They take a lot of flak (suicide bombs, etc. etc.) that would be otherwise aimed at Europeans or Americans. Its super-practical for the US to keep Israel strong. Imagine if you will when ISIS establishes itself as a pseudo-country. Do you think ISIS will be more concerned with Israel (who have a military within marching distance), or with Europeans / Americans that they've sworn to destroy half-way around the world? Who will they attack first? Besides, if Israel falls, their nuclear stockpile will cause some major issues.

ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Or, alternatively, they are an outpost of European colonialism, which the US should in no means be obligated to defend. Edited to Add: The idea of Zionism was a product of late 19th century colonialism. Hence a lot of pre-WW2 immigration to Palestine was from Europe. I don't think a lot of those early immigrants gave much consideration to the people already living there who weren't Jewish
- dragontamer 12y ago
  So you're the type to not care about historical or cultural connections between countries. I understand that. But I have there a multi-pronged argument. Please address the other issues if you actually want a serious response. My post wasn't very long, and its such a shame that you were only able to read a subset of it.
ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
"Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2." Is demonstrably not true. A substantial amount of immigration was the product of the late 19th century Zionist movement. Ever hear of the Balfour declaration? If Israel is ever in danger of being destroyed, they will undoubtedly use their Sampson option, and probably just nuke the rest of the Middle East (possibly some of Europe as well, and undoubtedly Mecca and Medina). That's not the kind of Western values I support.

nayefc 12y ago

Check http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/0374531501 http://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/037... More on the book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Fore...