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Love him or hate him, if Edward Snowden returns to the US, it will be in shackles and he will go to prison for most, if not all, of the rest of his life. The U

Love him or hate him, if Edward Snowden returns to the US, it will be in shackles and he will go to prison for most, if not all, of the rest of his life. The US government doesn't waive off prosecutions because the end justifies the means; it simply looks at the means and whether or not they were illegal. In this case, those means were extremely illegal. What Snowden did helped us as a society. He exposed Obama as a liar, the NSA as a thief, and made it politically impossible for legislators to ignore or endorse any form of secret surveillance. But he will personally suffer for that. Whether in the figurative prison of Russian citizenship, or more likely in the literal underground Federal prison in Florence, CO, where security is so tight that inmates are shown their mail on television screens instead of being allowed to touch it, he is going to pay for what he did for the rest of his life. In my view, we should all thank him for his sacrifice.

awt 12y ago
What about a presidential pardon?
- downandout 12y ago
  It would be politically controversial to do so, so I doubt it would ever happen. Definitely not from Obama, whom he exposed as a traitor to the very ideals that got him elected.
  - awt 12y ago
    True. Pardons are usually only given to people actually did something wrong.
    - Karunamon 12y ago
      No matter what you think of Snowden, he did break the law. He did break his oath, he did steal government property. That aside.. this is the least significant piece of information here. None of this is in question. The most important one, and the question that should be the only one that matters, is were those actions justified?
      - judk 12y ago
        Nothing in your post is responsive to parent. Snowden broke the law and should be pardoned because he did it to fight far worse lawbreaking.
        Karunamon 12y ago
        Parent implied that a pardon isn't on the table because Snowden did nothing wrong. Well, he did break the law. Hence pardon in the first place..
      - ksrm 12y ago
        Breaking the law =/=> doing something wrong.
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - rektide 12y ago
        What oath? The only oath he was required to sign AFAIK is the Oath of Office: one defending the constitution, not the corrupt inbred military-industrial-complex that's grown up. His oath read: "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." Source: http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/did-edward-snowden-break-his-oath http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/did-edward-snowde... I don't know one way or another about a Medal, but this man has upheld his oath, and he did not allow reservation or evasion to deter him in it discharging it's duty. So help him.
    - dllthomas 12y ago
      Do you consider dodging the draft during Vietnam to be "something wrong"?
      - judk 12y ago
        That was 40 years ago. We have had many pardons since.
        dllthomas 12y ago
        We've pardoned many people before and since, but in terms of number of people pardoned I think that still dominates.
      - ianstallings 12y ago
        Yes. But that's just my opinion.
        dllthomas 12y ago
        Not a crazy opinion, just curious, since I think by number of people pardoned that is the bulk of them (though I could certainly be mistaken).
  - rbanffy 12y ago
    It would be possible between the next election and him leaving office.
- zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
  Pardons are granted after someone has been found guilty. So far, Snowden has only been charged of treason and since he's not coming to the US to stand trial, a pardon is not applicable. "Dropping the charges" would be more accurate.
  - gonzo 12y ago
    A presidential grant of amnesty would be the right thing. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/edward-snowden-clemency-101675.html http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/edward-snowden-clemenc...
    - Istof 12y ago
      Maybe a new constitution amendment could be created to protect legitimate whistle blowers... since you can't count on politicians/Obama to do the right thing.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    Pardons are often granted before someone is found guilty. The most famous pardon in US history, Ford's pardon of Nixon, was before he was formally charged with anything. The blanket pardon of Vietnam draft dodgers also wound up pardoning many people who had not yet been charged. A pardon of Snowden would not be improper procedure. His accepting the pardon would be an admission that he performed the actions in question, but he admits that anyway.
guard-of-terra 12y ago
What if he is an american Solzhenitsyn? Prosecution will be waived and he'll return to the USA, while disgruntled authoritarian rednecks will have no more leverage than just curse and mumble irrecognizably that it was him him him who brought the great country down. Of course you still have to get a huge bubble popped first. P. S. Military-industrial complex will be too busy selling factories for scraps to care.
- ogrerut 12y ago
  One difference is that Solzhenitsyn never fled to US. He really cared for his country.
  - guard-of-terra 12y ago
    He was expelled from USSR and eventually end up in the USA. He thought too that he will never be able to return.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- downandout 12y ago
  Solzhenitsyn only returned after the USSR was dissolved - he essentially returned to an entirely different country. The US government is unlikely to be overthrown anytime soon. I also think that people are underestimating the sheer level of hatred that government types have for Snowden. My guess is that eventually the CIA will kidnap him and either return him to the US for prosecution under a story that he was traveling somewhere and got caught, or they will simply torture and kill him, making it look like a robbery or kidnapping gone wrong. He wouldn't be the first we've done it to.
  - AndrewBissell 12y ago
    I think that's the point of the parent post's reference to a bubble bursting, the fallout from which might include a sudden loss of credibility and power for the American elites who want to prosecute Snowden. And I think it's true that this is probably the only way he'll ever be allowed back to the U.S. as a free man.
dan_bk 12y ago
And if he wouldn't be in shackles, he would probably not stay alive for very long, considering what kind of concentrated power he has exposed (and let's not forget the fact that probably have of the population have been brainwashed to think he's the traitor).
recalibrator 12y ago
Thanking isn't enough. People need to go to the mat for Snowden. It would be our privilege.
forgotmypw 12y ago
Technically speaking, what he did does not carry a criminal penalty, because the United States does not have a secrets act. Reality, of course, is a different matter.

awt 12y ago

What about a presidential pardon?

downandout 12y ago
It would be politically controversial to do so, so I doubt it would ever happen. Definitely not from Obama, whom he exposed as a traitor to the very ideals that got him elected.
- awt 12y ago
  True. Pardons are usually only given to people actually did something wrong.
  - Karunamon 12y ago
    No matter what you think of Snowden, he did break the law. He did break his oath, he did steal government property. That aside.. this is the least significant piece of information here. None of this is in question. The most important one, and the question that should be the only one that matters, is were those actions justified?
    - judk 12y ago
      Nothing in your post is responsive to parent. Snowden broke the law and should be pardoned because he did it to fight far worse lawbreaking.
      - Karunamon 12y ago
        Parent implied that a pardon isn't on the table because Snowden did nothing wrong. Well, he did break the law. Hence pardon in the first place..
    - ksrm 12y ago
      Breaking the law =/=> doing something wrong.
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
    - rektide 12y ago
      What oath? The only oath he was required to sign AFAIK is the Oath of Office: one defending the constitution, not the corrupt inbred military-industrial-complex that's grown up. His oath read: "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." Source: http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/did-edward-snowden-break-his-oath http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/did-edward-snowde... I don't know one way or another about a Medal, but this man has upheld his oath, and he did not allow reservation or evasion to deter him in it discharging it's duty. So help him.
  - dllthomas 12y ago
    Do you consider dodging the draft during Vietnam to be "something wrong"?
    - judk 12y ago
      That was 40 years ago. We have had many pardons since.
      - dllthomas 12y ago
        We've pardoned many people before and since, but in terms of number of people pardoned I think that still dominates.
    - ianstallings 12y ago
      Yes. But that's just my opinion.
      - dllthomas 12y ago
        Not a crazy opinion, just curious, since I think by number of people pardoned that is the bulk of them (though I could certainly be mistaken).
- rbanffy 12y ago
  It would be possible between the next election and him leaving office.
zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
Pardons are granted after someone has been found guilty. So far, Snowden has only been charged of treason and since he's not coming to the US to stand trial, a pardon is not applicable. "Dropping the charges" would be more accurate.
- gonzo 12y ago
  A presidential grant of amnesty would be the right thing. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/edward-snowden-clemency-101675.html http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/edward-snowden-clemenc...
  - Istof 12y ago
    Maybe a new constitution amendment could be created to protect legitimate whistle blowers... since you can't count on politicians/Obama to do the right thing.
- dllthomas 12y ago
  Pardons are often granted before someone is found guilty. The most famous pardon in US history, Ford's pardon of Nixon, was before he was formally charged with anything. The blanket pardon of Vietnam draft dodgers also wound up pardoning many people who had not yet been charged. A pardon of Snowden would not be improper procedure. His accepting the pardon would be an admission that he performed the actions in question, but he admits that anyway.

guard-of-terra 12y ago

What if he is an american Solzhenitsyn? Prosecution will be waived and he'll return to the USA, while disgruntled authoritarian rednecks will have no more leverage than just curse and mumble irrecognizably that it was him him him who brought the great country down. Of course you still have to get a huge bubble popped first. P. S. Military-industrial complex will be too busy selling factories for scraps to care.

ogrerut 12y ago
One difference is that Solzhenitsyn never fled to US. He really cared for his country.
- guard-of-terra 12y ago
  He was expelled from USSR and eventually end up in the USA. He thought too that he will never be able to return.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
downandout 12y ago
Solzhenitsyn only returned after the USSR was dissolved - he essentially returned to an entirely different country. The US government is unlikely to be overthrown anytime soon. I also think that people are underestimating the sheer level of hatred that government types have for Snowden. My guess is that eventually the CIA will kidnap him and either return him to the US for prosecution under a story that he was traveling somewhere and got caught, or they will simply torture and kill him, making it look like a robbery or kidnapping gone wrong. He wouldn't be the first we've done it to.
- AndrewBissell 12y ago
  I think that's the point of the parent post's reference to a bubble bursting, the fallout from which might include a sudden loss of credibility and power for the American elites who want to prosecute Snowden. And I think it's true that this is probably the only way he'll ever be allowed back to the U.S. as a free man.

dan_bk 12y ago

And if he wouldn't be in shackles, he would probably not stay alive for very long, considering what kind of concentrated power he has exposed (and let's not forget the fact that probably have of the population have been brainwashed to think he's the traitor).

recalibrator 12y ago

Thanking isn't enough. People need to go to the mat for Snowden. It would be our privilege.

forgotmypw 12y ago

Technically speaking, what he did does not carry a criminal penalty, because the United States does not have a secrets act. Reality, of course, is a different matter.