3 ms·

Cheaply? You seriously think that 1200 EUR per user is cheap?

by moher 12y ago

blue1 12y ago
I've seen this discussion around LW an incredible number of times. The problem seems to be exactly this one: LW may be a nice product (many experience lispers seem to think so) or not (as someone on this thread is arguing), but in all cases LW's price is seen as incredibly high for today's sensitivities, especially given that there are very fine Common Lisp compilers around that are free (although way less refined, in the GUI department especially). LW has chosen to follow this kind of 80's-like business model and it's certainly their right to do so. They certainly have their reasons. Although personally I doubt this road is future-proof (or even present-proof).
- moher 12y ago
  I like the JetBrains pricing model, separating companies and individual developers.
plam3ns 12y ago
This is very simple. Saying that a Ferarri or a good Swiss watch or building an oil rafinery is expensive, because one doesn't want or can't buy it, just for the sake of it, is without sense. Cost as an absolute number is often meaningless. It gets a meaning in terms of value it could or does provide. For example, where I live, a not big appartent costs about 1500 EUR per month to rent. Is that expensive? Sure - everythign above 0 is expensive. But for me the value provided that I have a roof over the head is greater then the absolute cost. Well, I have lived also in places where this price for a similar appartment is about 100 EUR. Is that cheap? No - in comparison to the local purchasing power - no. But again - the value for me has been more important. Do I like the pricing of let say Oracle? Why should I.. But I can generate more value for clients and/or me using Oracle while using it in comparison to waiting around and telling everyone, that Oracle is expensive. As far as I know even in the most broken economies of the world, software developers can provide value for customers which exceeds the 1200 EUR initial and later 300 EUR per year of maintenance. If they can't, the problem is usually not the price of LW, but unemployment or impossibility to find paying clients for all possible economic or personal reasons beyond the price of LW. If you read earlier posts - you would have known, that if you just want to learn about LW or Common Lisp in general - there are plenty of options - LW provides a "Personal Edition" with the price of 0, or academic pricing as well as evaluation licenses. Outside of LW you have at least (in no particular order) SBCL, CLISP, ClozureCL, ABCL, ECL, which are all at least open source, some under GPL and most of them are pretty fine products too. So - as we both see - your problem is not actually in the 1200. Concerning OM: you can experience Open Music without the need to recompile it and THEN decide if the cost of the possibility to recompile it is of value FOR YOU greater then the price of LW. Again - this is not fault of LW or the authors of OM. It's just your decision AFTER you know how worth not just using or writing plugins for OM, but also changing OM itself is valuable to you. It's your choice and you are free to take it. If you say no - no one is insulted :) Cheers

Cheaply? You seriously think that 1200 EUR per user is cheap?

by moher 12y ago

Cheaply? You seriously think that 1200 EUR per user is cheap?

blue1 12y ago

I've seen this discussion around LW an incredible number of times. The problem seems to be exactly this one: LW may be a nice product (many experience lispers seem to think so) or not (as someone on this thread is arguing), but in all cases LW's price is seen as incredibly high for today's sensitivities, especially given that there are very fine Common Lisp compilers around that are free (although way less refined, in the GUI department especially). LW has chosen to follow this kind of 80's-like business model and it's certainly their right to do so. They certainly have their reasons. Although personally I doubt this road is future-proof (or even present-proof).

moher 12y ago
I like the JetBrains pricing model, separating companies and individual developers.

plam3ns 12y ago

This is very simple. Saying that a Ferarri or a good Swiss watch or building an oil rafinery is expensive, because one doesn't want or can't buy it, just for the sake of it, is without sense. Cost as an absolute number is often meaningless. It gets a meaning in terms of value it could or does provide. For example, where I live, a not big appartent costs about 1500 EUR per month to rent. Is that expensive? Sure - everythign above 0 is expensive. But for me the value provided that I have a roof over the head is greater then the absolute cost. Well, I have lived also in places where this price for a similar appartment is about 100 EUR. Is that cheap? No - in comparison to the local purchasing power - no. But again - the value for me has been more important. Do I like the pricing of let say Oracle? Why should I.. But I can generate more value for clients and/or me using Oracle while using it in comparison to waiting around and telling everyone, that Oracle is expensive. As far as I know even in the most broken economies of the world, software developers can provide value for customers which exceeds the 1200 EUR initial and later 300 EUR per year of maintenance. If they can't, the problem is usually not the price of LW, but unemployment or impossibility to find paying clients for all possible economic or personal reasons beyond the price of LW. If you read earlier posts - you would have known, that if you just want to learn about LW or Common Lisp in general - there are plenty of options - LW provides a "Personal Edition" with the price of 0, or academic pricing as well as evaluation licenses. Outside of LW you have at least (in no particular order) SBCL, CLISP, ClozureCL, ABCL, ECL, which are all at least open source, some under GPL and most of them are pretty fine products too. So - as we both see - your problem is not actually in the 1200. Concerning OM: you can experience Open Music without the need to recompile it and THEN decide if the cost of the possibility to recompile it is of value FOR YOU greater then the price of LW. Again - this is not fault of LW or the authors of OM. It's just your decision AFTER you know how worth not just using or writing plugins for OM, but also changing OM itself is valuable to you. It's your choice and you are free to take it. If you say no - no one is insulted :) Cheers