3 ms·

As for the armor plating question, did the plate the engine because of its size? The engines combined make up a smaller surface area than the other places but i

As for the armor plating question, did the plate the engine because of its size? The engines combined make up a smaller surface area than the other places but it was still shot up quite a bit. It would be less weight and not to mention it would be more 'mission critical'.

nielsbot 12y ago
my guess is that "evidence" (in the form of bullet holes) shows hits on the engines are the least survivable. (I am only saying that because I was told that the intuitive answer of "armor plate the most struck parts" is wrong.)
bagosm 12y ago
No I have read the story elsewhere, the reasoning is that if they were shot any more they wouldn't have returned at all (hence skewing the statistics). So they can take lots of hits on other spots and come back safely, but not so much on the engine so we protect the engine
lotsofmangos 12y ago
Bullets can be considered almost random in where they will hit, so, if it gets back with lots of holes in the fuselage, it tells you that you can have lots of holes in the fuselage and it still gets back. If almost none return with hits to the engine, then almost every engine hit is bringing down a plane.
kps 12y ago
I've read this story before, but asserting it was the RAF rather than the USAAF, which triggered my urban-legend detector. In fact, the mathematical work was done by Abraham Wald¹, a Jewish refugee from Romania, at Columbia University in 1943. A reprint of his memos is available², as is a more accessible article about his work³; the specific one is Part V Subdivision of the Plane⁴ Into Several Equi-Vulnerability Areas: “Thus, for the observed data of this hypothetical example [italics added], the engine area is the most vulnerable in the sense that a hit there is most likely to down the plane. The fuselage has a relatively low vulnerability.” I haven't seen evidence that his work was applied to actual aircraft design using real data. ¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Wald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Wald ² http://cna.org/sites/default/files/research/0204320000.pdf http://cna.org/sites/default/files/research/0204320000.pdf ³ http://people.ucsc.edu/~msmangel/Wald.pdf http://people.ucsc.edu/~msmangel/Wald.pdf ⁴ the flying kind

nielsbot 12y ago

my guess is that "evidence" (in the form of bullet holes) shows hits on the engines are the least survivable. (I am only saying that because I was told that the intuitive answer of "armor plate the most struck parts" is wrong.)

bagosm 12y ago

No I have read the story elsewhere, the reasoning is that if they were shot any more they wouldn't have returned at all (hence skewing the statistics). So they can take lots of hits on other spots and come back safely, but not so much on the engine so we protect the engine

lotsofmangos 12y ago

Bullets can be considered almost random in where they will hit, so, if it gets back with lots of holes in the fuselage, it tells you that you can have lots of holes in the fuselage and it still gets back. If almost none return with hits to the engine, then almost every engine hit is bringing down a plane.

kps 12y ago

I've read this story before, but asserting it was the RAF rather than the USAAF, which triggered my urban-legend detector. In fact, the mathematical work was done by Abraham Wald¹, a Jewish refugee from Romania, at Columbia University in 1943. A reprint of his memos is available², as is a more accessible article about his work³; the specific one is Part V Subdivision of the Plane⁴ Into Several Equi-Vulnerability Areas: “Thus, for the observed data of this hypothetical example [italics added], the engine area is the most vulnerable in the sense that a hit there is most likely to down the plane. The fuselage has a relatively low vulnerability.” I haven't seen evidence that his work was applied to actual aircraft design using real data. ¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Wald http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Wald ² http://cna.org/sites/default/files/research/0204320000.pdf http://cna.org/sites/default/files/research/0204320000.pdf ³ http://people.ucsc.edu/~msmangel/Wald.pdf http://people.ucsc.edu/~msmangel/Wald.pdf ⁴ the flying kind