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Coop models may work if decision-making structures are defined clearly and 'economically'. >> expand the coop model by associating it more closely with unions.

Coop models may work if decision-making structures are defined clearly and 'economically'. >> expand the coop model by associating it more closely with unions. A receipt for disaster. Some European states had this models in the past and completely abandoned them.

pgeorgi 12y ago
Note that "union" can mean very different things in different cultures. I don't think the model that works in Germany (unions having a significant representation on the board) would work with UK/US-style adversarial unions. Volkswagen tried - and their US employees weren't interested (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/14/vw-workers-vote-against-uaw/5500897/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/14/vw-worke...)
Certhas 12y ago
Care to elaborate? Unions function differently in different EU states: In the UK they were pretty much killed, in France they act as antagonists to the business side, in Germany they act more collaboratively with the business side. In the latter case in Germany every large enough commpany has to have a democratically elected workers council, that gets a seat on the board. While not the same as co-ownership, this democratic co-determination is arguably one of the more important reasons why labor relations in Germany are much better than in other European countries.
- lifeisstillgood 12y ago
  Part of a larger Eco-system which also includes many middle sized (family) firms and a banking culture focused on supporting such firms trough thick and thin. But yes, enforcing the voice of the worker in the Board is likely to be a major win all round for Anglo-Saxon English companies. One I would happily support.
- stygianguest 12y ago
  France also has democratically elected woker councils. It's no guarantee for succes. France on the other hand has had a minimum wage for a long time and a 35 hour work week. To me it isn't so clear who is doing a better job. But clearly French unions are not afraid of confrontation.
  - legulere 12y ago
    Germany didn't need a minimum wage because of the strong unions. Now that they lost much power minimum wage is needed. This is also why there's no big push for minimum wage for instance in Denmark or Sweden, because the unions still work there.
- bobcostas55 12y ago
  They also destroy capital, German firms (on average) have a marginal Tobin's q of less than 1.
  - Certhas 12y ago
    So? Given that the German economy seems to be doing rather fine this just seems to indicate that this is a useless index then.
- walshemj 12y ago
  But how does this apply to coops and unions - it gets a bit more complex where all the workers own the company what role does the union have?
  - ams6110 12y ago
    Same as they have when workers don't own the company: siphoning money into their own pockets.

pgeorgi 12y ago

Note that "union" can mean very different things in different cultures. I don't think the model that works in Germany (unions having a significant representation on the board) would work with UK/US-style adversarial unions. Volkswagen tried - and their US employees weren't interested (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/14/vw-workers-vote-against-uaw/5500897/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/14/vw-worke...)

Certhas 12y ago

Care to elaborate? Unions function differently in different EU states: In the UK they were pretty much killed, in France they act as antagonists to the business side, in Germany they act more collaboratively with the business side. In the latter case in Germany every large enough commpany has to have a democratically elected workers council, that gets a seat on the board. While not the same as co-ownership, this democratic co-determination is arguably one of the more important reasons why labor relations in Germany are much better than in other European countries.

lifeisstillgood 12y ago
Part of a larger Eco-system which also includes many middle sized (family) firms and a banking culture focused on supporting such firms trough thick and thin. But yes, enforcing the voice of the worker in the Board is likely to be a major win all round for Anglo-Saxon English companies. One I would happily support.
stygianguest 12y ago
France also has democratically elected woker councils. It's no guarantee for succes. France on the other hand has had a minimum wage for a long time and a 35 hour work week. To me it isn't so clear who is doing a better job. But clearly French unions are not afraid of confrontation.
- legulere 12y ago
  Germany didn't need a minimum wage because of the strong unions. Now that they lost much power minimum wage is needed. This is also why there's no big push for minimum wage for instance in Denmark or Sweden, because the unions still work there.
bobcostas55 12y ago
They also destroy capital, German firms (on average) have a marginal Tobin's q of less than 1.
- Certhas 12y ago
  So? Given that the German economy seems to be doing rather fine this just seems to indicate that this is a useless index then.
walshemj 12y ago
But how does this apply to coops and unions - it gets a bit more complex where all the workers own the company what role does the union have?
- ams6110 12y ago
  Same as they have when workers don't own the company: siphoning money into their own pockets.