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>Try to bring same argument with just people [...] laying laminate floor. Sure, lets. But before we do, let's see what the average pay is for a floor layer [1]

>Try to bring same argument with just people [...] laying laminate floor. Sure, lets. But before we do, let's see what the average pay is for a floor layer [1]: the median annual wage is 35k. Floor layers aren't professional laborers - and they sure as hell aren't paid like they are! How about a tile setter? That requires some more skill, right? 37k[2]. So what's your argument again? [1]: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472042.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472042.htm [2]: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472044.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472044.htm

hippich 12y ago
owenmarshall, first - i see a lot of people hired to do work on computers for less then 37k. So 37k for straightforward work - is not that bad. second - last time i hired someone to redo laminate floor they charged for work only ~1400. It was two guys spent two days (less than 8 hours total each day) working not exceptionally in hurry since it is fixed rate project I guess. Doing math it turns out to $43/hr. They are just couple guys who barely speak english. And this was the BEST price. "Companies" were charging 2x-3x for similar amount of work. Charging $43/hr in software freelancing is HARD and you have to justify this price. And no, these guys used help of someone else to post ad on craigslist because computers are hard.
- owenmarshall 12y ago
  Did you hire those two guys? Or did you hire someone else that paid for tools, carried the insurance, and then hired two cheap day laborers for minimum wage and said "go lay this floor"? Most of the time it's the former. But if you really paid that much, maybe you're not that good at bargaining? But let's stop talking about plumbers and tile setters and get to what's really bugging you. > i see a lot of people hired to do work on computers for less then 37k > Charging $43/hr in software freelancing is HARD > (from your original comment) "they somehow charge often more than I can do." I'm gonna speak frankly here: you're either seriously overestimating your skills as a developer (and getting upset that people won't hire you) or you've managed to seriously undervalue your own work. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's the latter. I charge well over $43 an hour for actual freelancing - 1099-MISC, pay my own insurance, etc. Even in cases where I take a side gig while already having a job I typically charge more. I think I started around $45 an hour, and that was with a very limited skill set years ago. Far too many people undershoot the market rate and end up working for less than they should. The problem also is that when you undershoot the market rate you end up attracting clients that don't appreciate what you do and why it's hard, further depressing your pay. Here's what you should do: take whatever your hourly was when you last freelanced and multiply it by three. See what happens.
  - hippich 12y ago
    (I am not charging $43, but I have friend who had hard time explaining why he is charging $27 for working on the Drupal project, eventually they end up not working together) Basically, you answered my original question with "You underestimate value of work you do." Thanks for you opinion :)

hippich 12y ago

owenmarshall, first - i see a lot of people hired to do work on computers for less then 37k. So 37k for straightforward work - is not that bad. second - last time i hired someone to redo laminate floor they charged for work only ~1400. It was two guys spent two days (less than 8 hours total each day) working not exceptionally in hurry since it is fixed rate project I guess. Doing math it turns out to $43/hr. They are just couple guys who barely speak english. And this was the BEST price. "Companies" were charging 2x-3x for similar amount of work. Charging $43/hr in software freelancing is HARD and you have to justify this price. And no, these guys used help of someone else to post ad on craigslist because computers are hard.

owenmarshall 12y ago
Did you hire those two guys? Or did you hire someone else that paid for tools, carried the insurance, and then hired two cheap day laborers for minimum wage and said "go lay this floor"? Most of the time it's the former. But if you really paid that much, maybe you're not that good at bargaining? But let's stop talking about plumbers and tile setters and get to what's really bugging you. > i see a lot of people hired to do work on computers for less then 37k > Charging $43/hr in software freelancing is HARD > (from your original comment) "they somehow charge often more than I can do." I'm gonna speak frankly here: you're either seriously overestimating your skills as a developer (and getting upset that people won't hire you) or you've managed to seriously undervalue your own work. If I had to guess, I'd guess it's the latter. I charge well over $43 an hour for actual freelancing - 1099-MISC, pay my own insurance, etc. Even in cases where I take a side gig while already having a job I typically charge more. I think I started around $45 an hour, and that was with a very limited skill set years ago. Far too many people undershoot the market rate and end up working for less than they should. The problem also is that when you undershoot the market rate you end up attracting clients that don't appreciate what you do and why it's hard, further depressing your pay. Here's what you should do: take whatever your hourly was when you last freelanced and multiply it by three. See what happens.
- hippich 12y ago
  (I am not charging $43, but I have friend who had hard time explaining why he is charging $27 for working on the Drupal project, eventually they end up not working together) Basically, you answered my original question with "You underestimate value of work you do." Thanks for you opinion :)