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> And here's the big one: when you add up all money you spent getting the permits, the fees associated with taking the old one to the dump, the materials, etc.

> And here's the big one: when you add up all money you spent getting the permits, the fees associated with taking the old one to the dump, the materials, etc. - be sure to also figure out how many hours you spent, multiply by your hourly rate, and subtract. I am not aware of any trades that do not charge for permits, materials, and disposal fees on top of their hourly rate. The one time I actually called a plumber, the $150/hr was straight labor. That said, I agree with the gist of your comment. People often underestimate how difficult it is to do things after only working with the simple cases or because they don't understand what is involved in doing something properly.

hippich 12y ago
Why when I ask someone to help with simple case they still charge me like they are working on high pressure gas pipe?
- vonmoltke 12y ago
  Professionals and trades generally charge a consistent labor rate, regardless of the specific tasks. Adjusting the rate based on the specific tasks would be very complicated, impractical, and possibly open these people up to legal challenges about what work should be billed at.
  - owenmarshall 12y ago
    Yeah, this is really confusing to me. When I freelance I charge a fixed hourly rate no matter if I'm doing a 30 second site that's all Django scaffolding or something much more difficult. I also charge by the hour - so I'd take 1000 of those 30 second Django sites any day of the week :-) Heck, some good freelancers have a minimum engagement period in the days. For a tradesperson this is even more imperative: it's far easier for me to switch from one project to another; our plumber has to load their tools and drive to the next job site. This means the plumber is always going to charge a fixed rate or risk losing money because they took the "$35 unclog the sink" job over the "$220 'the poop is everywhere'" job.
    - hippich 12y ago
      When I do work - I explain to my client that there is no need for my service "to install something" and refer them to less experienced devs who does major work and client invites me to fix something specific, or architect things or something like that. End result - less time billed and more cost effective work. In the same time other developer can learn stuff and gradually progresses to more advanced level. Contrast this to any handyman or plumber - they always seems to charge $50+/hr and $75+/hr no matter how simple task is at hands. And I bet if I had to deal with serious stuff, this rate would only go up. I.e. what they do is comparable to installing wordpress for $10/hr work. This is my problem.
owenmarshall 12y ago
Sorry, when I reread this sentence it didn't track well. The point I was trying to make was around the opportunity cost of doing your own work. That's incredibly important for a freelancer to consider. For example it'd probably take me 3 hours to install a toilet: driving to the home improvement store, buying the toilet, driving back, hauling it in, cursing at the wax seal... It'd be cheaper for me to pay a plumber to bring a toilet over and spend 15 minutes (rounded up to an hour) installing it, because those 3 hours can get billed.

hippich 12y ago

Why when I ask someone to help with simple case they still charge me like they are working on high pressure gas pipe?

vonmoltke 12y ago
Professionals and trades generally charge a consistent labor rate, regardless of the specific tasks. Adjusting the rate based on the specific tasks would be very complicated, impractical, and possibly open these people up to legal challenges about what work should be billed at.
- owenmarshall 12y ago
  Yeah, this is really confusing to me. When I freelance I charge a fixed hourly rate no matter if I'm doing a 30 second site that's all Django scaffolding or something much more difficult. I also charge by the hour - so I'd take 1000 of those 30 second Django sites any day of the week :-) Heck, some good freelancers have a minimum engagement period in the days. For a tradesperson this is even more imperative: it's far easier for me to switch from one project to another; our plumber has to load their tools and drive to the next job site. This means the plumber is always going to charge a fixed rate or risk losing money because they took the "$35 unclog the sink" job over the "$220 'the poop is everywhere'" job.
  - hippich 12y ago
    When I do work - I explain to my client that there is no need for my service "to install something" and refer them to less experienced devs who does major work and client invites me to fix something specific, or architect things or something like that. End result - less time billed and more cost effective work. In the same time other developer can learn stuff and gradually progresses to more advanced level. Contrast this to any handyman or plumber - they always seems to charge $50+/hr and $75+/hr no matter how simple task is at hands. And I bet if I had to deal with serious stuff, this rate would only go up. I.e. what they do is comparable to installing wordpress for $10/hr work. This is my problem.

owenmarshall 12y ago

Sorry, when I reread this sentence it didn't track well. The point I was trying to make was around the opportunity cost of doing your own work. That's incredibly important for a freelancer to consider. For example it'd probably take me 3 hours to install a toilet: driving to the home improvement store, buying the toilet, driving back, hauling it in, cursing at the wax seal... It'd be cheaper for me to pay a plumber to bring a toilet over and spend 15 minutes (rounded up to an hour) installing it, because those 3 hours can get billed.