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I am reading HN for over 1.5 years, not that much, but still. Yes, i've registered account only few hours ago when I understood that by upvoting the article I c

by grepz 12y ago

I am reading HN for over 1.5 years, not that much, but still. Yes, i've registered account only few hours ago when I understood that by upvoting the article I can save it in my account, so no need for bookmarking anymore. It is sad that you jump to conclusions so fast.

adamnemecek 12y ago
Is it sad? Blindly supporting a pseudo-fascist regime seems sadder.
- grepz 12y ago
  I am not supporting Putin and co. I don't like many things happening at the moment in my country. But if you put revolution on a scale - no thank you.
  - omonra 12y ago
    The fact that you put Syria and Ukraine in the same sentence when describing 'revolutions' shows that you're fairly brain-washed. If not by Channel 1 - then by the paid bloggers that dominate Livejournal top pos list these days.
    - pjc50 12y ago
      Not everyone who disagrees with you on international politics is brainwashed. Edit: no, really, it is possible for someone to reach different conclusions from you without being "brainwashed", paid, deluded, or a sockpuppet. People think differently about the world and are operating from different sets of knowledge and beliefs. And different levels of cynicism about international power politics.
      - BugBrother 12y ago
        True -- when the subject is Russia today, there are lots of paid people too. (And if you think it is bad in English, be happy that you don't have to swim through the mangled comments in Swedish. But in the last 2-3 months they have gotten a bunch of people with better Swedish.) Edit: Answer to the Edit. Of course I know that. I ALSO know that few well read people sincerely believe in that the whole world's [democratic] media are in a conspiracy against just Russia and the only truth is in Putin's controlled media. But yes, people do believe in conspiracy theories.
    - grepz 12y ago
      It amaze me how easy people accusing others of being pro-Putin activists and not having independent opinion. Strictly speaking _everyone_ is influenced by what they read and by people they talk to in one way or another. When I put Syria and Ukraine in the same line i mean: 1. I think that what is happening in eastern Ukraine right now is logical consequence of Kiev events. Having a few friends living in Kiev, some of them where on Maidan supporting the revolution and a few friends living in Donbass who supports pro-Russian forces I receive alot of controversial information from both sides. For me it is obvious: it is a civil war right now. Same in Syria. 2. Both countries are playground for major political forces. 3. Both countries are in a really bad state right now.
      - omonra 12y ago
        1. False. The events in Eastern Ukraine have been planned by Russia a decade ago (ie there are photos of Russians waving flags of 'Donetsk Republic' in the mid 2000's). Same with annexation of Crimea - Russia just used the opportunity to execute the plan. Even the execution started before Yanukovich left the country (such as movement of troops, etc). 2. It's not a civil war and the forces in Eastern ukraine are not 'pro-Russian'. They are Russian forces (do lookup its leaders - Girkin, Bezler, Antyufeyev, etc). They are all Russian and are members of various branches of Russian government - FSB, GRU, etc. Your points 2 & 3 i won't even address as they are 'not even wrong'. Any conflict can be described as 'playground for political forces' and 'bad state'. That's why it's a conflict.
        grepz 12y ago
        I don't want to support any side of conflict mostly because I personally know people from both camps. Ukraine and Russia are connected to each other more then they want to and much more then ordinary person who reads western media knows. Connected in all aspects, cultural, family ties, friendship, buisness, ethnic. You may not believe me but current situation is like if Canada decided to have a trade/military treaty with Russia breaking any ties with US at the same time. So before this conflict waving russian flag was actually quite normal. Theres alot of russians fighting in ranks of DNR/LNR forces, true. But theres alot of Ukrainians too. You may call this conflict anything you want, but if one group of citizens fight with the other it is civil war. This conflict is supported by russian government only blind will say that LNR/DNR are on their own. The main thing is: LNR/DNR are possible only because they are supported by locals and because of actions of Kiev right after Maidan. Statements that where made by Kiev politics, law acts they enforced, there where alot of mistakes made by Kiev government that led to current situation. Some information to consider: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine#Proposals_for_repeal_and_revision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukr... http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:2001_Ukr_ethno.png http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:2001_U... (red color is for people who pose themselves as ethnically russians) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution#Protests_against_the_new_government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution#Prote... (just to understand what actions of new government caused so much protest) Theres alot of information in russian internet but you probably dismiss it as being propaganda and me being brain-washed again.
    - dang 12y ago
      > you're fairly brain-washed No personal attacks on Hacker News, please.
- dspillett 12y ago
  I don't particularly see "blind support" in his last couple of posts. He acknowledged that some don't support the regime as-is, didn't directly state support or not in his own part, and explained part of the situation that stops those people railing against it (the fear of history repeating badly), raising what could be an interesting discussion point if I had time to take that slightly off-topic detour right now. You on the other hand seem to be blindly throwing around assumptions (you can't logically deduce "supports X" from "doesn't make a point of denouncing X") instead of taking the more mature opportunity of delving into the points mentioned.

by grepz 12y ago

adamnemecek 12y ago

Is it sad? Blindly supporting a pseudo-fascist regime seems sadder.

grepz 12y ago
I am not supporting Putin and co. I don't like many things happening at the moment in my country. But if you put revolution on a scale - no thank you.
- omonra 12y ago
  The fact that you put Syria and Ukraine in the same sentence when describing 'revolutions' shows that you're fairly brain-washed. If not by Channel 1 - then by the paid bloggers that dominate Livejournal top pos list these days.
  - pjc50 12y ago
    Not everyone who disagrees with you on international politics is brainwashed. Edit: no, really, it is possible for someone to reach different conclusions from you without being "brainwashed", paid, deluded, or a sockpuppet. People think differently about the world and are operating from different sets of knowledge and beliefs. And different levels of cynicism about international power politics.
    - BugBrother 12y ago
      True -- when the subject is Russia today, there are lots of paid people too. (And if you think it is bad in English, be happy that you don't have to swim through the mangled comments in Swedish. But in the last 2-3 months they have gotten a bunch of people with better Swedish.) Edit: Answer to the Edit. Of course I know that. I ALSO know that few well read people sincerely believe in that the whole world's [democratic] media are in a conspiracy against just Russia and the only truth is in Putin's controlled media. But yes, people do believe in conspiracy theories.
  - grepz 12y ago
    It amaze me how easy people accusing others of being pro-Putin activists and not having independent opinion. Strictly speaking _everyone_ is influenced by what they read and by people they talk to in one way or another. When I put Syria and Ukraine in the same line i mean: 1. I think that what is happening in eastern Ukraine right now is logical consequence of Kiev events. Having a few friends living in Kiev, some of them where on Maidan supporting the revolution and a few friends living in Donbass who supports pro-Russian forces I receive alot of controversial information from both sides. For me it is obvious: it is a civil war right now. Same in Syria. 2. Both countries are playground for major political forces. 3. Both countries are in a really bad state right now.
    - omonra 12y ago
      1. False. The events in Eastern Ukraine have been planned by Russia a decade ago (ie there are photos of Russians waving flags of 'Donetsk Republic' in the mid 2000's). Same with annexation of Crimea - Russia just used the opportunity to execute the plan. Even the execution started before Yanukovich left the country (such as movement of troops, etc). 2. It's not a civil war and the forces in Eastern ukraine are not 'pro-Russian'. They are Russian forces (do lookup its leaders - Girkin, Bezler, Antyufeyev, etc). They are all Russian and are members of various branches of Russian government - FSB, GRU, etc. Your points 2 & 3 i won't even address as they are 'not even wrong'. Any conflict can be described as 'playground for political forces' and 'bad state'. That's why it's a conflict.
      - grepz 12y ago
        I don't want to support any side of conflict mostly because I personally know people from both camps. Ukraine and Russia are connected to each other more then they want to and much more then ordinary person who reads western media knows. Connected in all aspects, cultural, family ties, friendship, buisness, ethnic. You may not believe me but current situation is like if Canada decided to have a trade/military treaty with Russia breaking any ties with US at the same time. So before this conflict waving russian flag was actually quite normal. Theres alot of russians fighting in ranks of DNR/LNR forces, true. But theres alot of Ukrainians too. You may call this conflict anything you want, but if one group of citizens fight with the other it is civil war. This conflict is supported by russian government only blind will say that LNR/DNR are on their own. The main thing is: LNR/DNR are possible only because they are supported by locals and because of actions of Kiev right after Maidan. Statements that where made by Kiev politics, law acts they enforced, there where alot of mistakes made by Kiev government that led to current situation. Some information to consider: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukraine#Proposals_for_repeal_and_revision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legislation_on_languages_in_Ukr... http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:2001_Ukr_ethno.png http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:2001_U... (red color is for people who pose themselves as ethnically russians) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution#Protests_against_the_new_government http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution#Prote... (just to understand what actions of new government caused so much protest) Theres alot of information in russian internet but you probably dismiss it as being propaganda and me being brain-washed again.
  - dang 12y ago
    > you're fairly brain-washed No personal attacks on Hacker News, please.
dspillett 12y ago
I don't particularly see "blind support" in his last couple of posts. He acknowledged that some don't support the regime as-is, didn't directly state support or not in his own part, and explained part of the situation that stops those people railing against it (the fear of history repeating badly), raising what could be an interesting discussion point if I had time to take that slightly off-topic detour right now. You on the other hand seem to be blindly throwing around assumptions (you can't logically deduce "supports X" from "doesn't make a point of denouncing X") instead of taking the more mature opportunity of delving into the points mentioned.