4 ms·

As much as people complain about them, I still haven't found a service that matches their reach or ease. Let's face it, PP is a de-facto bank without any of the

by ejr 12y ago

As much as people complain about them, I still haven't found a service that matches their reach or ease. Let's face it, PP is a de-facto bank without any of the regulations, requirements or safeguards.

BorisMelnik 12y ago
ease of use is still kind of key for me. I pay a lot of people in Europe / Asia and if it weren't for paypal I'd literally have to make a trip to my supermarket Western Union twice a week.
- ejr 12y ago
  Yes, exactly. When I tell people where they need to send funds, their first question is "do you have a PayPal account?" Western Union, Moneygram and such are all highly inconvenient for both parties. And services like Stripe aren't an option for me due to their restrictions on use as well https://stripe.com/us/prohibited_businesses https://stripe.com/us/prohibited_businesses My work covers multiple items on that list. Compare that to PayPal's https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#9 https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#9 Edit: I should mention, of Strip's list of "prohibited businesses", nothing I do is illegal or unethical. Just in case I gave that impression.
  - liveoneggs 12y ago
    wow that list is huge!
  - bmelton 12y ago
    Hell, I had no idea that Stripe's prohibited businesses list was so ... massive. The list runs the gamut from "risky" to "value judgement", and I can't help but wonder how all those items ended up on the same list.
    - eli 12y ago
      Some are clearly legal liabilities. The rest almost certainly have high fraud/chargeback rates. Can you imagine how many people must dispute what they paid to a psychic
      - mietek 12y ago
        What about "48. Telecommunications equipment and telephone sales"?
        jasonlotito 12y ago
        What about it? Telephone sales are high risk.
        eli 12y ago
        Yes. A quick google reveals: > Telecom – The telecommunications industry is much more proficient with technology than it used to be. However, once services have been provided, recipients may dispute them. Card-not-present transactions are a mainstay for telecom companies. http://www.aliantpayments.com/who-we-service/high-risk-processing-merchants/ http://www.aliantpayments.com/who-we-service/high-risk-proce... I would imagine that things like VoIP service are targeted by criminals who constantly need new, anonymous phone numbers for other scams. Stripe's real business is measuring and assessing risk. The moving dollars around is the easy part.
        mietek 12y ago
        I was thinking racks of Alcatel-Lucent and stacks of Sagem, but perhaps you have a point.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - kitchenette 12y ago
      I work at Stripe and just wanted to give a little bit of color here in case it's useful. These restrictions come from our financial partners which unfortunately means that we generally don't have much flexibility around them. If you have any questions about any of this or want to see if we can work with your business, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at support@stripe.com.
  - Yardlink 12y ago
    Wow - "Engaging in any form of licensed or unlicensed aggregation or factoring" Lucky I don't use Stripe to sell my scientific software which does unlicensed factoring of large matrices and also sell "Personal computer technical support" to help customers who have problems using it. But the real problem with Stripe is simply that it's not available in almost any country. They're too small to have the resources to read the laws and open bank accounts outside America.
    - eli 12y ago
      I think they meant this kind of factoring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)
  - nknighthb 12y ago
    I have utterly no idea what several items on Stripe's list are. Some that I tried looking up remain, at best, unclear to me. Some of the items are extremely vague, even to the point of contradiction, or to the point of sweeping in huge amounts of activity that nobody should consider high-risk. For example: "3. Virtual currency that can be monetized, re-sold or converted to physical or digital products or services or otherwise exit the virtual world" So, implicitly, then, virtual currency that can't be easily converted back to real cash is fine. But: "43. Quasi-cash or stored value" This could describe a virtual currency that doesn't violate #3. But then: "52. Selling video game or virtual world credits (unless you are the operator of the video game or virtual world)" Make up your mind, Stripe. Meanwhile, #2, "Weapons and munitions". Under US law, a PlayStation can be treated as a munition. #4, "Sexually-oriented or pornographic products or services". So, no sex-ed materials, bad romance novels, or condoms. #15, "Age restricted products or services", can be read to preclude any business that restricts signup by under-13s in order to be sure they meet the requirements of US federal law. #31, "Extended warranties". So, this precludes pretty much everybody who offers a product customers might want long-term support for. Like, say, every computer manufacturer in history. #41, "Prepaid phone cards, phone services or cell phones". This means a hypothetical electronics store can't sell cell phones -- even simple unlocked phones without plans. #48, "Telecommunications equipment and telephone sales", would preclude the sale of any sort of networking equipment. Or, really, any piece of equipment capable of connecting with a network, including any general-purpose computer. Companies should put the same care into the design and usability of their terms and conditions as they do into their products, because the former has a direct impact on the latter, and often makes for huge PR messes.
  - anurag 12y ago
    (I work on risk at Stripe.) Most of that list is bank legalese we're contractually bound to include in our ToS. This is not to say these restrictions don't mean anything; just that I wouldn't interpret them too literally. We've actually just created a much more coherent version of this list, and it will be up on the site as soon as we can get our banking partners onboard. As for your specific case, please email me at anurag@stripe.com and we can try to figure out if Stripe can somehow work for you.
eli 12y ago
In Europe (and I think some states) Paypal is a fully licensed as a bank.

by ejr 12y ago

BorisMelnik 12y ago

ease of use is still kind of key for me. I pay a lot of people in Europe / Asia and if it weren't for paypal I'd literally have to make a trip to my supermarket Western Union twice a week.

ejr 12y ago
Yes, exactly. When I tell people where they need to send funds, their first question is "do you have a PayPal account?" Western Union, Moneygram and such are all highly inconvenient for both parties. And services like Stripe aren't an option for me due to their restrictions on use as well https://stripe.com/us/prohibited_businesses https://stripe.com/us/prohibited_businesses My work covers multiple items on that list. Compare that to PayPal's https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#9 https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#9 Edit: I should mention, of Strip's list of "prohibited businesses", nothing I do is illegal or unethical. Just in case I gave that impression.
- liveoneggs 12y ago
  wow that list is huge!
- bmelton 12y ago
  Hell, I had no idea that Stripe's prohibited businesses list was so ... massive. The list runs the gamut from "risky" to "value judgement", and I can't help but wonder how all those items ended up on the same list.
  - eli 12y ago
    Some are clearly legal liabilities. The rest almost certainly have high fraud/chargeback rates. Can you imagine how many people must dispute what they paid to a psychic
    - mietek 12y ago
      What about "48. Telecommunications equipment and telephone sales"?
      - jasonlotito 12y ago
        What about it? Telephone sales are high risk.
      - eli 12y ago
        Yes. A quick google reveals: > Telecom – The telecommunications industry is much more proficient with technology than it used to be. However, once services have been provided, recipients may dispute them. Card-not-present transactions are a mainstay for telecom companies. http://www.aliantpayments.com/who-we-service/high-risk-processing-merchants/ http://www.aliantpayments.com/who-we-service/high-risk-proce... I would imagine that things like VoIP service are targeted by criminals who constantly need new, anonymous phone numbers for other scams. Stripe's real business is measuring and assessing risk. The moving dollars around is the easy part.
        mietek 12y ago
        I was thinking racks of Alcatel-Lucent and stacks of Sagem, but perhaps you have a point.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - kitchenette 12y ago
    I work at Stripe and just wanted to give a little bit of color here in case it's useful. These restrictions come from our financial partners which unfortunately means that we generally don't have much flexibility around them. If you have any questions about any of this or want to see if we can work with your business, please don't hesitate to reach out to us at support@stripe.com.
- Yardlink 12y ago
  Wow - "Engaging in any form of licensed or unlicensed aggregation or factoring" Lucky I don't use Stripe to sell my scientific software which does unlicensed factoring of large matrices and also sell "Personal computer technical support" to help customers who have problems using it. But the real problem with Stripe is simply that it's not available in almost any country. They're too small to have the resources to read the laws and open bank accounts outside America.
  - eli 12y ago
    I think they meant this kind of factoring: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoring_(finance)
- nknighthb 12y ago
  I have utterly no idea what several items on Stripe's list are. Some that I tried looking up remain, at best, unclear to me. Some of the items are extremely vague, even to the point of contradiction, or to the point of sweeping in huge amounts of activity that nobody should consider high-risk. For example: "3. Virtual currency that can be monetized, re-sold or converted to physical or digital products or services or otherwise exit the virtual world" So, implicitly, then, virtual currency that can't be easily converted back to real cash is fine. But: "43. Quasi-cash or stored value" This could describe a virtual currency that doesn't violate #3. But then: "52. Selling video game or virtual world credits (unless you are the operator of the video game or virtual world)" Make up your mind, Stripe. Meanwhile, #2, "Weapons and munitions". Under US law, a PlayStation can be treated as a munition. #4, "Sexually-oriented or pornographic products or services". So, no sex-ed materials, bad romance novels, or condoms. #15, "Age restricted products or services", can be read to preclude any business that restricts signup by under-13s in order to be sure they meet the requirements of US federal law. #31, "Extended warranties". So, this precludes pretty much everybody who offers a product customers might want long-term support for. Like, say, every computer manufacturer in history. #41, "Prepaid phone cards, phone services or cell phones". This means a hypothetical electronics store can't sell cell phones -- even simple unlocked phones without plans. #48, "Telecommunications equipment and telephone sales", would preclude the sale of any sort of networking equipment. Or, really, any piece of equipment capable of connecting with a network, including any general-purpose computer. Companies should put the same care into the design and usability of their terms and conditions as they do into their products, because the former has a direct impact on the latter, and often makes for huge PR messes.
- anurag 12y ago
  (I work on risk at Stripe.) Most of that list is bank legalese we're contractually bound to include in our ToS. This is not to say these restrictions don't mean anything; just that I wouldn't interpret them too literally. We've actually just created a much more coherent version of this list, and it will be up on the site as soon as we can get our banking partners onboard. As for your specific case, please email me at anurag@stripe.com and we can try to figure out if Stripe can somehow work for you.

eli 12y ago

In Europe (and I think some states) Paypal is a fully licensed as a bank.