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Matt Cutts and other tech donors launch CounterPAC

61 points by jim-greer 12y ago

eurleif 12y ago
>Candidates who sign the CounterPAC Pledge must give 50 percent of any money spent on their behalf by a group with undisclosed donors to a charity of their opponent's choice. This sounds like it could be abused. If I'm rich enough, what's to stop me from running a bad ad for a candidate I don't like as a way to force them to donate all their money to charity?
- jim-greer 12y ago
  Good question - we call this the "sham ad" problem. If an ad is of questionable origin and effectiveness, we'll investigate and even focus test it to see if it sways opinion. We have a group of 3 independent commissioners who would then vote on how to proceed. They are: - Lawrence Lessig (Harvard, Creative Commons, MayDAY Pac) - Richard Painter (George W. Bush's ethics czar) - Buddy Roemer (former Governor of Louisiana, has been both a D and an R)
  - wdewind 12y ago
    Wow those are three highly politicized choices. I'd like to say they balance each other out, but Roemer is really an R, and acted like one when he was a D in LA. When Bush's Ethics Czar is the moderate of the bunch there are issues. I have to say that while I know it's difficult to find people qualified for such a job who don't have huge political ties, it's disappointing to see such heavily biased people be on a committee to make decisions like that.
    - jim-greer 12y ago
      Richard Painter was not just Bush's ethics czar, but is a very respected law professor and ethicist. You can read some of his publications to get a better sense of him: http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/painterr.html http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/painterr.html http://wisconsinlawreview.org/wp-content/files/1-Nagy-Painter.pdf http://wisconsinlawreview.org/wp-content/files/1-Nagy-Painte... Buddy Roemer is also not an ideologue by any means.
      - wdewind 12y ago
        Yeah you know, you're right about Roemer, I read a bit more about him and I was wrong. Very atypical for an LA governor haha.
      - jtbigwoo 12y ago
        I think the criticism is reasonable, though. Roemer has been a self-declared Republican for 23 years. Painter seems reasonable and thoughtful, but when making political judgements it's tough to overlook his connection to the Bush administration. Centrist and liberal observers can be forgiven for being suspicious of a committee with two Republicans and a techno-liberal. I don't envy the people who had to organize this, by the way. Either you set up an odd-numbered panel and expect a bunch of criticism or you setup a even-numbered panel and prepare yourself for stalemates and ineffectiveness. (I suppose you could have a very large odd-numbered panel and hope that the law of averages helps you remain balanced.)
jgalt212 12y ago
Fighting fire with fire is always tricky, but something has to be done. Good luck to them.
jeremyt 12y ago
Considering what recently happened at Mozilla, and other examples where we see protesters showing up at people's private homes, I oppose this effort. I used to think that disclosure was the answer when it came to campaign-finance reform: let anybody give as much as they want as long as it's publicly disclosed. But now that people can lose their job because of their political views, I'm much more reluctant to speak out in favor of or donate to causes I believe in. Hell, I'm afraid to even say what I'm saying right now because it'll put me on record publicly opposing Matt Cutts, who can basically make or break any future companies I participate in that rely on SEO as a strategy. I think people should be able to donate to causes anonymously without worrying about retaliation..
- jim-greer 12y ago
  It's a tough balance, but I think most people disagree with you. Right now there's literally nothing stopping Russia or China from buying ads to sway elections. I don't think that's happening, but I think secrecy and corruption are a bigger threat to our democracy than a few protesters. Even Ted Cruz thinks there should be full and immediate disclosure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmUvAoPV1I&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmUvAoPV1I&feature=youtu.be
  - jeremyt 12y ago
    With respect, I think it's a safe bet that this organization wasn't formed to prevent Russia or China from participating in domestic politics. It seems squarely focused on the David Kochs and Tom Steyers of the world. And if Russia or China was participating to a significant degree in our internal politics, that would come out as a national security issue and should be dealt with in other ways. I know that my position isn't popular, but the Federalist papers talked about this issue, and took the position that for every David Koch there is a Tom Steyer. Why not let them waste all of their money fighting each other? There are several recent examples illustrating that money doesn't buy elections. Maybe it's not a fact yet, but there's enough evidence behind it that I think it's a defensible position. If this takes off, I think the end result will be less participation in the political process by average Americans, who fear retaliation down the road. Maybe it looks like a difficult balance to you, but I think I would always come down on the side of more speech rather than less.
sylvinus 12y ago
Thanks Jim for participating here. Can you explain the links between MaydayPAC and CounterPAC, their degree of cooperation and what makes them different? Thanks! PS: Congrats for the hard work you're doing.
- jim-greer 12y ago
  I'm actually on the board of MayDay PAC as well, but they are separate efforts. MayDay is trying to elect pro-reform candidates. CounterPAC actually doesn't care what views a candidate holds. We're 100% focused on the way they run their race. We're running ads calling on candidates to sign a legally binding pledge. If any group spends secret money on candidate's behalf, that candidate will donate from their campaign to a charity of their opponent's choice. MayDay has to pick sides. CounterPAC is happy to work with anyone who will run their race cleanly and transparently, even if they are backed by the Koch brothers or others - as long as their backers aren't anonymous.
  - sylvinus 12y ago
    Got it, thanks!
outside1234 12y ago
Isn't Matt Cutts supposed to be on sabbatical? :)
moogoo 12y ago
Matt Cutts is a fascist

61 points by jim-greer 12y ago

>Candidates who sign the CounterPAC Pledge must give 50 percent of any money spent on their behalf by a group with undisclosed donors to a charity of their opponent's choice. This sounds like it could be abused. If I'm rich enough, what's to stop me from running a bad ad for a candidate I don't like as a way to force them to donate all their money to charity?

jim-greer 12y ago
Good question - we call this the "sham ad" problem. If an ad is of questionable origin and effectiveness, we'll investigate and even focus test it to see if it sways opinion. We have a group of 3 independent commissioners who would then vote on how to proceed. They are: - Lawrence Lessig (Harvard, Creative Commons, MayDAY Pac) - Richard Painter (George W. Bush's ethics czar) - Buddy Roemer (former Governor of Louisiana, has been both a D and an R)
- wdewind 12y ago
  Wow those are three highly politicized choices. I'd like to say they balance each other out, but Roemer is really an R, and acted like one when he was a D in LA. When Bush's Ethics Czar is the moderate of the bunch there are issues. I have to say that while I know it's difficult to find people qualified for such a job who don't have huge political ties, it's disappointing to see such heavily biased people be on a committee to make decisions like that.
  - jim-greer 12y ago
    Richard Painter was not just Bush's ethics czar, but is a very respected law professor and ethicist. You can read some of his publications to get a better sense of him: http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/painterr.html http://www.law.umn.edu/facultyprofiles/painterr.html http://wisconsinlawreview.org/wp-content/files/1-Nagy-Painter.pdf http://wisconsinlawreview.org/wp-content/files/1-Nagy-Painte... Buddy Roemer is also not an ideologue by any means.
    - wdewind 12y ago
      Yeah you know, you're right about Roemer, I read a bit more about him and I was wrong. Very atypical for an LA governor haha.
    - jtbigwoo 12y ago
      I think the criticism is reasonable, though. Roemer has been a self-declared Republican for 23 years. Painter seems reasonable and thoughtful, but when making political judgements it's tough to overlook his connection to the Bush administration. Centrist and liberal observers can be forgiven for being suspicious of a committee with two Republicans and a techno-liberal. I don't envy the people who had to organize this, by the way. Either you set up an odd-numbered panel and expect a bunch of criticism or you setup a even-numbered panel and prepare yourself for stalemates and ineffectiveness. (I suppose you could have a very large odd-numbered panel and hope that the law of averages helps you remain balanced.)

jgalt212 12y ago

Fighting fire with fire is always tricky, but something has to be done. Good luck to them.

jeremyt 12y ago

Considering what recently happened at Mozilla, and other examples where we see protesters showing up at people's private homes, I oppose this effort. I used to think that disclosure was the answer when it came to campaign-finance reform: let anybody give as much as they want as long as it's publicly disclosed. But now that people can lose their job because of their political views, I'm much more reluctant to speak out in favor of or donate to causes I believe in. Hell, I'm afraid to even say what I'm saying right now because it'll put me on record publicly opposing Matt Cutts, who can basically make or break any future companies I participate in that rely on SEO as a strategy. I think people should be able to donate to causes anonymously without worrying about retaliation..

jim-greer 12y ago
It's a tough balance, but I think most people disagree with you. Right now there's literally nothing stopping Russia or China from buying ads to sway elections. I don't think that's happening, but I think secrecy and corruption are a bigger threat to our democracy than a few protesters. Even Ted Cruz thinks there should be full and immediate disclosure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmUvAoPV1I&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrmUvAoPV1I&feature=youtu.be
- jeremyt 12y ago
  With respect, I think it's a safe bet that this organization wasn't formed to prevent Russia or China from participating in domestic politics. It seems squarely focused on the David Kochs and Tom Steyers of the world. And if Russia or China was participating to a significant degree in our internal politics, that would come out as a national security issue and should be dealt with in other ways. I know that my position isn't popular, but the Federalist papers talked about this issue, and took the position that for every David Koch there is a Tom Steyer. Why not let them waste all of their money fighting each other? There are several recent examples illustrating that money doesn't buy elections. Maybe it's not a fact yet, but there's enough evidence behind it that I think it's a defensible position. If this takes off, I think the end result will be less participation in the political process by average Americans, who fear retaliation down the road. Maybe it looks like a difficult balance to you, but I think I would always come down on the side of more speech rather than less.

sylvinus 12y ago

Thanks Jim for participating here. Can you explain the links between MaydayPAC and CounterPAC, their degree of cooperation and what makes them different? Thanks! PS: Congrats for the hard work you're doing.

jim-greer 12y ago
I'm actually on the board of MayDay PAC as well, but they are separate efforts. MayDay is trying to elect pro-reform candidates. CounterPAC actually doesn't care what views a candidate holds. We're 100% focused on the way they run their race. We're running ads calling on candidates to sign a legally binding pledge. If any group spends secret money on candidate's behalf, that candidate will donate from their campaign to a charity of their opponent's choice. MayDay has to pick sides. CounterPAC is happy to work with anyone who will run their race cleanly and transparently, even if they are backed by the Koch brothers or others - as long as their backers aren't anonymous.
- sylvinus 12y ago
  Got it, thanks!

outside1234 12y ago

Isn't Matt Cutts supposed to be on sabbatical? :)

moogoo 12y ago

Matt Cutts is a fascist