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While the article may be correct that MOOCs will not achieve the oft-stated outcome of displacing the current higher educational system, I think the argument th

While the article may be correct that MOOCs will not achieve the oft-stated outcome of displacing the current higher educational system, I think the argument that the author is making regarding the affordability of college is off base. Harry Lewis in the article states: "At Harvard and a handful of other schools, nobody graduates with any debt (unless they have intentionally borrowed so they could avoid making money in the summer, etc., and even then the amounts are likely < $10K)." While according to Harvard itself: "The total 2013-2014 cost of attending Harvard College without financial aid is $38,891 for tuition and $59,950 for tuition, room, board and fees combined." Unless summer+part time work is a lot more lucrative than I am aware of, the only way this would be true is if the students (or their parents) were financially well-endowed. A student that doesn't have rich parents is going to be incurring a fair amount of debt or spending way too much time working instead of studying. Edit: Harvard is generous with its financial aid, so the author's message is more accurate than I understood (at least for Harvard). Learned something.

ambler0 12y ago
I took him to mean that everyone at Harvard who doesn't come from wealth gets a huge amount of financial aid.
- molbioguy 12y ago
  That would be cool. I know Harvard has a huge endowment. That would be a great way to use it. Any data on whether that's true?
  - IvyMike 12y ago
    https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost... > approximately 70 percent of Harvard students receive some form of financial aid. About 2/3rds of Harvard students graduate with no debt. http://madamenoire.com/111119/the-10-schools-that-generate-the-most-and-least-debt-for-its-grads/7/ http://madamenoire.com/111119/the-10-schools-that-generate-t...
  - smeyer 12y ago
    You can look at Harvard's stated financial aid standards. The rough guideline last time I checked (I'm Harvard class of 2013) was that if your family income was under 60k a year, you got full aid, and from 60k to 180k per year you were expected to pay about 10% of your family income. They have a calculator you can use here: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculat... . It's definitely the case that when they say that Harvard students are graduating without debt, it is because of the generous financial aid and not just the independent wealth of the students and their families.
  - pge 12y ago
    Definitely not true when I graduated (almost 20 years ago). I came out with ~$25k student loan debt. That said, Harvard's endowment did enable them to be much more generous than other schools on grant money - no other school came close in their financial aid offer to me.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> Unless summer+part time work is a lot more lucrative than I am aware of, the only way this would be true is if the students (or their parents) were financially well-endowed. Or if, as is often the case at wealthy private colleges, Harvard has extensive school-provied need-based financial aid in grant, rather than loan, form (as well as any academic scholarships) which assure that the full cost is only paid by (some of) those who are financially well-endowed, while those who aren't financially well-endowed (as well as some who are, due to academic scholarships) are paying much less out of pocket (including loans as "out of pocket" for this purpose.)
- molbioguy 12y ago
  Good point (and same to @ambler0). I have little first-hand experience here so I may be way off base, but on average are families paying far less than the retail price of 60K/yr? I mean, if your family had a 100K income, would you still get a break? How much loss is Harvard absorbing?
  - smeyer 12y ago
    Try the net price calculator here: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculat... . I was Harvard class of 2013, and I received some financial aid from Harvard even when my family had an income well above 100k (my father is a professor and my mom works for the federal government; both have PhDs). Edit: I think it's more around the 180k-200k range where the aid falls off rapidly, especially if you don't have extenuating circumstances like a sibling also in college.
    - gertef 12y ago
      It's insane how massive the financial aid discrepency is between a family with kids aged 18+20 (expected contribution = 50% each) vs a family with kids aged 18+22 (expected contribution = 100% each)
  - ef4 12y ago
    A family with $100k in income can expect to pay around $12,000 per year at Harvard, the difference being covered by need-based grants and scholarships. Very few people pay full price.
cowbell 12y ago
FTFA: the median starting salary of people with college degrees is $46,900 Of those who graduated... of those who found a job at all. >$59,950 for tuition, room, board and fees combined If a summer job could pay for that, then why would I need a college degree to make $47K annually? Harry Lewis is le trollin.
- ChuckFrank 12y ago
  I thought the same thing. Besides, many elite institutions actively discourage working while at school, and I speak from personal experience here. So there's no way to actually make that type of money away from school. Besides, it puts the responsibility of those outrageous fees on the student again - why don't you just work to get the money? And that's not the point. Competing options are.

ambler0 12y ago

I took him to mean that everyone at Harvard who doesn't come from wealth gets a huge amount of financial aid.

molbioguy 12y ago
That would be cool. I know Harvard has a huge endowment. That would be a great way to use it. Any data on whether that's true?
- IvyMike 12y ago
  https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost-attendance https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works/cost... > approximately 70 percent of Harvard students receive some form of financial aid. About 2/3rds of Harvard students graduate with no debt. http://madamenoire.com/111119/the-10-schools-that-generate-the-most-and-least-debt-for-its-grads/7/ http://madamenoire.com/111119/the-10-schools-that-generate-t...
- smeyer 12y ago
  You can look at Harvard's stated financial aid standards. The rough guideline last time I checked (I'm Harvard class of 2013) was that if your family income was under 60k a year, you got full aid, and from 60k to 180k per year you were expected to pay about 10% of your family income. They have a calculator you can use here: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculat... . It's definitely the case that when they say that Harvard students are graduating without debt, it is because of the generous financial aid and not just the independent wealth of the students and their families.
- pge 12y ago
  Definitely not true when I graduated (almost 20 years ago). I came out with ~$25k student loan debt. That said, Harvard's endowment did enable them to be much more generous than other schools on grant money - no other school came close in their financial aid offer to me.

dragonwriter 12y ago

> Unless summer+part time work is a lot more lucrative than I am aware of, the only way this would be true is if the students (or their parents) were financially well-endowed. Or if, as is often the case at wealthy private colleges, Harvard has extensive school-provied need-based financial aid in grant, rather than loan, form (as well as any academic scholarships) which assure that the full cost is only paid by (some of) those who are financially well-endowed, while those who aren't financially well-endowed (as well as some who are, due to academic scholarships) are paying much less out of pocket (including loans as "out of pocket" for this purpose.)

molbioguy 12y ago
Good point (and same to @ambler0). I have little first-hand experience here so I may be way off base, but on average are families paying far less than the retail price of 60K/yr? I mean, if your family had a 100K income, would you still get a break? How much loss is Harvard absorbing?
- smeyer 12y ago
  Try the net price calculator here: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculat... . I was Harvard class of 2013, and I received some financial aid from Harvard even when my family had an income well above 100k (my father is a professor and my mom works for the federal government; both have PhDs). Edit: I think it's more around the 180k-200k range where the aid falls off rapidly, especially if you don't have extenuating circumstances like a sibling also in college.
  - gertef 12y ago
    It's insane how massive the financial aid discrepency is between a family with kids aged 18+20 (expected contribution = 50% each) vs a family with kids aged 18+22 (expected contribution = 100% each)
- ef4 12y ago
  A family with $100k in income can expect to pay around $12,000 per year at Harvard, the difference being covered by need-based grants and scholarships. Very few people pay full price.

cowbell 12y ago

FTFA: the median starting salary of people with college degrees is $46,900 Of those who graduated... of those who found a job at all. >$59,950 for tuition, room, board and fees combined If a summer job could pay for that, then why would I need a college degree to make $47K annually? Harry Lewis is le trollin.

ChuckFrank 12y ago
I thought the same thing. Besides, many elite institutions actively discourage working while at school, and I speak from personal experience here. So there's no way to actually make that type of money away from school. Besides, it puts the responsibility of those outrageous fees on the student again - why don't you just work to get the money? And that's not the point. Competing options are.