4 ms·

I'd really like to see more transparency when it comes to title changes. The most recent case where one of my submissions had a title change mirrors what kudu

by curtis 12y ago

I'd really like to see more transparency when it comes to title changes. The most recent case where one of my submissions had a title change mirrors what kudu is describing here: a meaningful (and I think accurate) title changed to a generic and vague one -- followed by a rapid decline in the rate of upvotes. I think there are legitimate reasons for title changes, and I think that the Hacker News mods generally do good work. But sometimes they seem to be fixing stuff that isn't broken. I realize titles in particular can be really subjective, but that's one reason I'd like to see a comment with the old and new titles whenever a title change happens. That will allow the community to chime in when maybe the title change wasn't an improvement after all.

Alupis 12y ago
> I'd really like to see more transparency I agree. From the random weighting down of certain articles, to title changes, to just flat-out removing/flaging some posts... it seems HN is becoming a "whatever the Mod who happens to be on today feels like" site -- which really detracts from the awesomeness of HN -- I'm not looking for a gatekeeper news site - if I wanted that, I'd go to CNN or something.
- DanBC 12y ago
  You're saying mods are responsible for some things that are user actions.
  - krapp 12y ago
    If dang is concerned about the noise being caused by users complaining about the effect of certain actions (either by mods or users,) that could probably be cleared up in the UI. Something as simple as an asterisk or an automatically generated note mentioning whether a mod changed a title or user flags killed a story would possibly clear up confusion. Although the logical outcome of this would be some kind of graph generated for each thread that plots upvotes, downvotes, mod actions, user edits etc. over time but that would be insane...
- Alupis 12y ago
  Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8116199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8116199
Arjuna 12y ago
"I'd really like to see more transparency when it comes to title changes." I think dang is working hard to be transparent about this topic. You can see a number of examples of this by reading through the following search result [1]. Cases in point: He has reverted titles to their original form... "Ok, we'll change the title back again." [2] He is open to suggestions... "If anyone suggests a better title, I'll change it again." [3] "That's a fair suggestion and we changed the title accordingly." [4] "We'd happily change the title if someone can propose a more accurate and neutral one." [5] [1] https://hn.algolia.com/#!/comment/forever/0/author%3Adang%20title%20change https://hn.algolia.com/#!/comment/forever/0/author%3Adang%20... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8050702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8050702 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7557464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7557464 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8104621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8104621 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7959549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7959549
- weaksauce 12y ago
  I think having the original title as an option to be shown inside the comments would be nice.
- bliggity 12y ago
  Title changes are a perennial point of friction. Much time and energy by many parties has been spent over months debating and analyzing it. Why not just implement a title history feature? Mods can change title, then users can click a link to show title history. For extra points, you could make the title history page a poll/voting system which allows users above n karma, registered for x months to vote on their preferred title. Top voted title after y votes and z time after initial title change is what's used.
  - BrandonMarc 12y ago
    I definitely like the option of a title history + voting on which you believe is a "better" title. I also agree that limiting it to a certain threshold of karma, account age, etc, is appropriate.
- 12y ago
crististm 12y ago
Some wikipedia editors found a new home. Sometimes, people in a position of power, need some reassuring of that position by exercising the power. Most of the time however, the strong ones don't need that reassurance.
bmurphy1976 12y ago
> I'd really like to see more transparency when it comes to title changes So would I. Last time I mentioned this I got my head bit off (that's how it's always been!!). I don't care. It could AND SHOULD be better and WILL be if we demand it.

by curtis 12y ago

Alupis 12y ago

> I'd really like to see more transparency I agree. From the random weighting down of certain articles, to title changes, to just flat-out removing/flaging some posts... it seems HN is becoming a "whatever the Mod who happens to be on today feels like" site -- which really detracts from the awesomeness of HN -- I'm not looking for a gatekeeper news site - if I wanted that, I'd go to CNN or something.

DanBC 12y ago
You're saying mods are responsible for some things that are user actions.
- krapp 12y ago
  If dang is concerned about the noise being caused by users complaining about the effect of certain actions (either by mods or users,) that could probably be cleared up in the UI. Something as simple as an asterisk or an automatically generated note mentioning whether a mod changed a title or user flags killed a story would possibly clear up confusion. Although the logical outcome of this would be some kind of graph generated for each thread that plots upvotes, downvotes, mod actions, user edits etc. over time but that would be insane...
Alupis 12y ago
Discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8116199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8116199

Arjuna 12y ago

"I'd really like to see more transparency when it comes to title changes." I think dang is working hard to be transparent about this topic. You can see a number of examples of this by reading through the following search result [1]. Cases in point: He has reverted titles to their original form... "Ok, we'll change the title back again." [2] He is open to suggestions... "If anyone suggests a better title, I'll change it again." [3] "That's a fair suggestion and we changed the title accordingly." [4] "We'd happily change the title if someone can propose a more accurate and neutral one." [5] [1] https://hn.algolia.com/#!/comment/forever/0/author%3Adang%20title%20change https://hn.algolia.com/#!/comment/forever/0/author%3Adang%20... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8050702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8050702 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7557464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7557464 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8104621 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8104621 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7959549 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7959549

weaksauce 12y ago
I think having the original title as an option to be shown inside the comments would be nice.
bliggity 12y ago
Title changes are a perennial point of friction. Much time and energy by many parties has been spent over months debating and analyzing it. Why not just implement a title history feature? Mods can change title, then users can click a link to show title history. For extra points, you could make the title history page a poll/voting system which allows users above n karma, registered for x months to vote on their preferred title. Top voted title after y votes and z time after initial title change is what's used.
- BrandonMarc 12y ago
  I definitely like the option of a title history + voting on which you believe is a "better" title. I also agree that limiting it to a certain threshold of karma, account age, etc, is appropriate.
12y ago

crististm 12y ago

Some wikipedia editors found a new home. Sometimes, people in a position of power, need some reassuring of that position by exercising the power. Most of the time however, the strong ones don't need that reassurance.

bmurphy1976 12y ago

> I'd really like to see more transparency when it comes to title changes So would I. Last time I mentioned this I got my head bit off (that's how it's always been!!). I don't care. It could AND SHOULD be better and WILL be if we demand it.