5 ms·

Does PPP take into account things that are paid for with taxes (to a greater degree) in the EU and by insurance fees in the US, e.g. healthcare?

by m_eiman 17y ago

david927 17y ago
Exactly. PPP is calculated in such a way that makes such gigantic jokes like this possible. You simply have to travel to see how funny it is. Has that person been to Mississippi, and has he been to Switzerland or Norway? I mean, come on.
- tptacek 17y ago
  I was waiting for someone to debunk this, but I have to ask --- everyone in Jackson has a Wal-Mart within a 5 minute drive, and the average home purchase price is $129,000. It isn't possible that people in Jackson have approximately the same standard of living as Germans, at a much lower price?
  - barrkel 17y ago
    Of all the European countries I've been to, Germany is the country that most reminded me of the US in terms of road patterns and layout, car orientation, big marts / malls with a lot of choice - far more choice than the average UK supermarket, in which it's unusual to see more than about 4 choices for any given commodity. For context, I'm Irish and currently living in the UK, working for a US company and regularly visit the Santa Cruz area; I've been in Paris, Barcelona, Seville, Lisbon, Sicily, much of Italy, Amsterdam, Vienna, Prague, Bucharest, Budapest, Sofia, Athens, Lausanne, etc. I know my German girlfriend and her friends disagree with my perception - they see UK & Ireland as being quite different from the continent.
  - dkarl 17y ago
    Let's not blithely discount the judgment of all the people who pay twice as much for the same house elsewhere.
    - jibiki 17y ago
      Yes, there are many factors to consider. For instance, the average European probably enjoys much better weather than the average Mississippian.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      There's a reason that people pay 3-4x as much to live in Manhattan, but it isn't to get better houses. Just 43% of Germans own at all. Renting can be better than owning, especially in major metro areas, but owning comes with benefits too --- like being able to customize.
  - desu 17y ago
    I guess that depends on what you mean by "standard of living". I can give you a triple gold plated guarantee, though, that the Germans would not consider living in Jackson in your $129k house next to Wal-Mart a "high standard of living". So, in summary, no, it's not possible. You should travel a bit. The whole idea is a complete joke. I mean seriously, would you rather live in Berlin or Jackson? Seriously? Berlin has a 24hr tram every 15 minutes, go whereever you like for like a euro. Some of the best nightclubs in Europe (America has 0 good nightclubs). What was that about cheap jars of pickles at Wal-Mart?
    - tptacek 17y ago
      I've traveled a lot, including to Germany. My wife lived in Zurich. Please don't assume I'm being parochial. You and I are not the right control group for this experiment. I'm not going to move to Jackson because my favorite bands will never play there, and because I like high-end and ethnic restaurants. But a 44-year-old schoolteacher might not care about those things. The decision between Jackson and Chicago might not be cut-and-dry for him. (Also, have you been to Jackson? I have. It's not squalid. It's not hickish. It's just a small city. It has several large colleges, and is the headquarters for a couple large companies.)
      - desu 17y ago
        Oh, I didn't mean that. I just meant that "how much stuff you can buy" is perhaps not the only possible measurement of quality of life. And I've long thought PPP to be almost irrelevant in developed countries. Every single thing I buy I buy on quality, not price or quantity. PPP utterly fails to account for that. It's useless. Anyway. Cool, I like Zurich. Hm, this thread is making me remember all these cities and influencing my holiday plans! update: you edited your post. I have never been to Jackson, nor any American city aside from NYC and the California sprawl (LA/SF/SD). Yes, your 44-yr-old schoolteacher might enjoy a happy, quiet life there. I am sure it is a fine city, but I have zero interest in ever visiting it. Again, you are right - we are not the right control group here.
        tptacek 17y ago
- barrkel 17y ago
  But but but a coffee and cake at a Swiss Starbucks will cost you so much more! At least that's the way it was when I was last in Lausanne, but the views and free wifi (city-wide IIRC, judging by the SSID) made up for it.
  - desu 17y ago
    Lausanne!? That's practically in France! edit: well it is!
bilbo0s 17y ago
Uhh . . . Do you guys know how PPP is calculated? Using PPP the people of Mississippi are more wealthy than the people of Nebraska, New Mexico, Delaware, New Hampshire, Hawaii, West Virginia, Idaho, Maine, Rhode Island, Alaska, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota and Vermont. In fact, they are more wealthy than the people of Hawaii and Vermont COMBINED!!! Another one an econ professor loves to throw at his students. You ready? The people of Gary, Indiana are far better off than the people of Darien, Connecticut! If you are not American, you probably don't have a good appreciation for the absurdity of the previous assertions. So think of it this way, using PPP, the people of Lagos, Nigeria are LOADS better off than the people of Singapore. This is as close as I can find to the international equivalent of a comparison of Gary, Indiana, and Darien, Connecticut. If any Americans out there can come up with some better ones do jump in! PPP comparisons reach quite humorous conclusions at times. I'm sure we are all up for a good laugh.
- tptacek 17y ago
  Neat. Why does it work this way?
  - barrkel 17y ago
    I wonder if it's due to income skew. If there's a bunch of people at the bottom of the pyramid, providing services cheaply but getting paid very little, it makes everyone else seem far better off.

Does PPP take into account things that are paid for with taxes (to a greater degree) in the EU and by insurance fees in the US, e.g. healthcare?

by m_eiman 17y ago

Does PPP take into account things that are paid for with taxes (to a greater degree) in the EU and by insurance fees in the US, e.g. healthcare?

david927 17y ago

Exactly. PPP is calculated in such a way that makes such gigantic jokes like this possible. You simply have to travel to see how funny it is. Has that person been to Mississippi, and has he been to Switzerland or Norway? I mean, come on.

tptacek 17y ago
I was waiting for someone to debunk this, but I have to ask --- everyone in Jackson has a Wal-Mart within a 5 minute drive, and the average home purchase price is $129,000. It isn't possible that people in Jackson have approximately the same standard of living as Germans, at a much lower price?
- barrkel 17y ago
  Of all the European countries I've been to, Germany is the country that most reminded me of the US in terms of road patterns and layout, car orientation, big marts / malls with a lot of choice - far more choice than the average UK supermarket, in which it's unusual to see more than about 4 choices for any given commodity. For context, I'm Irish and currently living in the UK, working for a US company and regularly visit the Santa Cruz area; I've been in Paris, Barcelona, Seville, Lisbon, Sicily, much of Italy, Amsterdam, Vienna, Prague, Bucharest, Budapest, Sofia, Athens, Lausanne, etc. I know my German girlfriend and her friends disagree with my perception - they see UK & Ireland as being quite different from the continent.
- dkarl 17y ago
  Let's not blithely discount the judgment of all the people who pay twice as much for the same house elsewhere.
  - jibiki 17y ago
    Yes, there are many factors to consider. For instance, the average European probably enjoys much better weather than the average Mississippian.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    There's a reason that people pay 3-4x as much to live in Manhattan, but it isn't to get better houses. Just 43% of Germans own at all. Renting can be better than owning, especially in major metro areas, but owning comes with benefits too --- like being able to customize.
- desu 17y ago
  I guess that depends on what you mean by "standard of living". I can give you a triple gold plated guarantee, though, that the Germans would not consider living in Jackson in your $129k house next to Wal-Mart a "high standard of living". So, in summary, no, it's not possible. You should travel a bit. The whole idea is a complete joke. I mean seriously, would you rather live in Berlin or Jackson? Seriously? Berlin has a 24hr tram every 15 minutes, go whereever you like for like a euro. Some of the best nightclubs in Europe (America has 0 good nightclubs). What was that about cheap jars of pickles at Wal-Mart?
  - tptacek 17y ago
    I've traveled a lot, including to Germany. My wife lived in Zurich. Please don't assume I'm being parochial. You and I are not the right control group for this experiment. I'm not going to move to Jackson because my favorite bands will never play there, and because I like high-end and ethnic restaurants. But a 44-year-old schoolteacher might not care about those things. The decision between Jackson and Chicago might not be cut-and-dry for him. (Also, have you been to Jackson? I have. It's not squalid. It's not hickish. It's just a small city. It has several large colleges, and is the headquarters for a couple large companies.)
    - desu 17y ago
      Oh, I didn't mean that. I just meant that "how much stuff you can buy" is perhaps not the only possible measurement of quality of life. And I've long thought PPP to be almost irrelevant in developed countries. Every single thing I buy I buy on quality, not price or quantity. PPP utterly fails to account for that. It's useless. Anyway. Cool, I like Zurich. Hm, this thread is making me remember all these cities and influencing my holiday plans! update: you edited your post. I have never been to Jackson, nor any American city aside from NYC and the California sprawl (LA/SF/SD). Yes, your 44-yr-old schoolteacher might enjoy a happy, quiet life there. I am sure it is a fine city, but I have zero interest in ever visiting it. Again, you are right - we are not the right control group here.
      - tptacek 17y ago
barrkel 17y ago
But but but a coffee and cake at a Swiss Starbucks will cost you so much more! At least that's the way it was when I was last in Lausanne, but the views and free wifi (city-wide IIRC, judging by the SSID) made up for it.
- desu 17y ago
  Lausanne!? That's practically in France! edit: well it is!

bilbo0s 17y ago

Uhh . . . Do you guys know how PPP is calculated? Using PPP the people of Mississippi are more wealthy than the people of Nebraska, New Mexico, Delaware, New Hampshire, Hawaii, West Virginia, Idaho, Maine, Rhode Island, Alaska, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota and Vermont. In fact, they are more wealthy than the people of Hawaii and Vermont COMBINED!!! Another one an econ professor loves to throw at his students. You ready? The people of Gary, Indiana are far better off than the people of Darien, Connecticut! If you are not American, you probably don't have a good appreciation for the absurdity of the previous assertions. So think of it this way, using PPP, the people of Lagos, Nigeria are LOADS better off than the people of Singapore. This is as close as I can find to the international equivalent of a comparison of Gary, Indiana, and Darien, Connecticut. If any Americans out there can come up with some better ones do jump in! PPP comparisons reach quite humorous conclusions at times. I'm sure we are all up for a good laugh.

tptacek 17y ago
Neat. Why does it work this way?
- barrkel 17y ago
  I wonder if it's due to income skew. If there's a bunch of people at the bottom of the pyramid, providing services cheaply but getting paid very little, it makes everyone else seem far better off.