4 ms·

>"If you like it because it's like rails, why not just use rails?" PHP is ubiquitous on shared hosting platforms, there aren't that many "shared" Rails hosters

>"If you like it because it's like rails, why not just use rails?" PHP is ubiquitous on shared hosting platforms, there aren't that many "shared" Rails hosters out there. Morts still use shared hosters.

chatmasta 12y ago
This was a much more compelling argument when shared hosting was still cheaper than a VPS with root access. But now you can get a VPS from any slew of providers, like digitalocean, for $5 a month. Root access computing has never been more accessible, and shared hosting is rapidly losing any value proposition it once had. So targeting PHP purely because it's more ubiquitous on shared hosting than Rails, is making less and less sense.
- weego 12y ago
  Upload and run with all the security and management done for you is a great way to get going in web development. I don't feel that the idea that everyone doing reasonably simple PHP stuff should have root access 'makes sense' actually does.
- Kiro 12y ago
  I don't want root access. I want to sign up, upload my files through FTP and have it working instantly without having to worry about anything else.
  - chatmasta 12y ago
    ... which you can also do on platforms like digitalocean. Just spin up a preconfigured dokku droplet and git push.
    - Kiro 12y ago
      > Just spin up a preconfigured dokku droplet and git push. Exactly the kind of things I don't want to be bothered with. I'm just saying that traditional web hosts suit my needs perfectly and DigitalOcean is no replacement.
      - will_work4tears 12y ago
        That workflow is pretty outdated, you know. It's about akin to using tables for layout, and about as much of a no no. I know, git can be pretty confusing, but using version control, even in a one man shop, is a huge boon.
        grandsham 12y ago
        who says Kiro isn't using version control? traditional web hosts provide a level of management that isn't present in VPSes. You may be able to get turnkey instances, but you still have to be responsible for managing them and maintaining them. Vs a traditional webhost where you don't have to worry about all that. You can claim that its "outdated" and "akin to using tables for layout", but its also still a very valid workflow for a lot of people who don't want to be sysadmins in addition to developers
        will_work4tears 12y ago
        It's a strong implication. Kiro quotes two items from the parent, and says he doesn't want to be bothered with "those" things. Kinda implies he doesn't use git, since that was one of the two items quoted.
        Kiro 12y ago
        I do use git. Just not for deployment. To be honest though I could live without it.
      - tragic 12y ago
        So that would be "I don't want to be bothered with two clicks and a single terminal command." Really? Leaving aside the whole "PHP sucks" vs "PHP is great/fine for my purposes" thing, this is really breathtaking. The fact that you can just FTP up your folder does not mean that's a sensible best-practice way to deploy anything, PHP, Ruby, Brainfuck or whatever you like. It isn't. FTP is insecure[0]. If you're balking at 'git push', then presumably you're balking at source control, which involves a lot of that sort of thing. That is just entirely unprofessional. And 'no replacement'? FTPing a bunch of stuff into a public folder allows you to deploy something quickly and easily. So does the GP's suggested workflow. It is, exactly, a like for like replacement - except that it's a more secure and less fragile workflow. I repeat - this has no bearing on the pro/anti-PHP holy war (I lean towards anti, but there's good PHP code out there, whatever. Hopefully a proper language spec will shove things in the right direction). If your argument for PHP is that it allows you to easily evade responsible working practices in software development, however, you're getting dangerously close to the anti-PHP stereotype of the average PHP developer. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#Security http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#Security
    - ben0x539 12y ago
      Compared to the php workflow, this is pure technobabble.
- surreal 12y ago
  That's still $60 a year, which is at least double the price of a simple reliable shared hosting package. The shared hosting has other conveniences too. I'm not saying it's without downsides, but there are cases for choosing it, and therefore for choosing PHP.
  - jules 12y ago
    You must value your time and sanity really low if you are willing to put up with PHP instead of Ruby for $30/year.
jules 12y ago
This was already an outdated argument 5 years ago.

chatmasta 12y ago

This was a much more compelling argument when shared hosting was still cheaper than a VPS with root access. But now you can get a VPS from any slew of providers, like digitalocean, for $5 a month. Root access computing has never been more accessible, and shared hosting is rapidly losing any value proposition it once had. So targeting PHP purely because it's more ubiquitous on shared hosting than Rails, is making less and less sense.

weego 12y ago
Upload and run with all the security and management done for you is a great way to get going in web development. I don't feel that the idea that everyone doing reasonably simple PHP stuff should have root access 'makes sense' actually does.
Kiro 12y ago
I don't want root access. I want to sign up, upload my files through FTP and have it working instantly without having to worry about anything else.
- chatmasta 12y ago
  ... which you can also do on platforms like digitalocean. Just spin up a preconfigured dokku droplet and git push.
  - Kiro 12y ago
    > Just spin up a preconfigured dokku droplet and git push. Exactly the kind of things I don't want to be bothered with. I'm just saying that traditional web hosts suit my needs perfectly and DigitalOcean is no replacement.
    - will_work4tears 12y ago
      That workflow is pretty outdated, you know. It's about akin to using tables for layout, and about as much of a no no. I know, git can be pretty confusing, but using version control, even in a one man shop, is a huge boon.
      - grandsham 12y ago
        who says Kiro isn't using version control? traditional web hosts provide a level of management that isn't present in VPSes. You may be able to get turnkey instances, but you still have to be responsible for managing them and maintaining them. Vs a traditional webhost where you don't have to worry about all that. You can claim that its "outdated" and "akin to using tables for layout", but its also still a very valid workflow for a lot of people who don't want to be sysadmins in addition to developers
        will_work4tears 12y ago
        It's a strong implication. Kiro quotes two items from the parent, and says he doesn't want to be bothered with "those" things. Kinda implies he doesn't use git, since that was one of the two items quoted.
        Kiro 12y ago
        I do use git. Just not for deployment. To be honest though I could live without it.
    - tragic 12y ago
      So that would be "I don't want to be bothered with two clicks and a single terminal command." Really? Leaving aside the whole "PHP sucks" vs "PHP is great/fine for my purposes" thing, this is really breathtaking. The fact that you can just FTP up your folder does not mean that's a sensible best-practice way to deploy anything, PHP, Ruby, Brainfuck or whatever you like. It isn't. FTP is insecure[0]. If you're balking at 'git push', then presumably you're balking at source control, which involves a lot of that sort of thing. That is just entirely unprofessional. And 'no replacement'? FTPing a bunch of stuff into a public folder allows you to deploy something quickly and easily. So does the GP's suggested workflow. It is, exactly, a like for like replacement - except that it's a more secure and less fragile workflow. I repeat - this has no bearing on the pro/anti-PHP holy war (I lean towards anti, but there's good PHP code out there, whatever. Hopefully a proper language spec will shove things in the right direction). If your argument for PHP is that it allows you to easily evade responsible working practices in software development, however, you're getting dangerously close to the anti-PHP stereotype of the average PHP developer. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#Security http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Transfer_Protocol#Security
  - ben0x539 12y ago
    Compared to the php workflow, this is pure technobabble.
surreal 12y ago
That's still $60 a year, which is at least double the price of a simple reliable shared hosting package. The shared hosting has other conveniences too. I'm not saying it's without downsides, but there are cases for choosing it, and therefore for choosing PHP.
- jules 12y ago
  You must value your time and sanity really low if you are willing to put up with PHP instead of Ruby for $30/year.

jules 12y ago

This was already an outdated argument 5 years ago.