4 ms·

This has always been the case. Software people in the 70s and 80s already had the distinction between "systems" and "application" programmers -- the former unde

This has always been the case. Software people in the 70s and 80s already had the distinction between "systems" and "application" programmers -- the former understood to be concerned with making the pipes and plumbing, vs. the applications guys concerned with the end users. Applications have always been like legos. I work as a systems developer but often do consulting projects as an application developer, and it's a totally different mindset. Writing software for end users, I rarely even remotely think about CS, algorithms, pointers, recursion, numerical stability, memory allocators, etc, whereas I do care intimately about the tools I'm using, much like I suspect a carpenter cares about what drill he's got. On the other end of the spectrum, I can hardly go a day writing traditional "systems" software without considering things like what data structure MongoDB/Postgres uses to hold indices, and gigantic, complex consensus problems (distributed systems, e.g. how DNS behaves). I hope we start to treat these two endeavors differently because they require totally different mindsets and education. A typical app developer need know no more about how OSes work, than a plumber needs to understand the metallurgy used to make pipes.

the_af 12y ago
I see the overall point you're making, but it's not true programming applications is always (or even often) like building with Lego pieces. It's just that many of us have to write mindless web apps which mostly consist of CRUDs. Those definitely are like working with Lego. CS, algorithms, pointers, recursion, numerical stability, etc, etc, are all alive and well in the world of applications programming. Just not in the world of run-of-the-mill CRUDs.
- eldavido 12y ago
  Sure. And to be clear, I in no way think applications is easier. In fact, applications, as they're closer to end-users, have to deal with all kinds of socially-imposed whimsy like people with four names, tax rules, interest rate calculations, and 100 other things that make my head hurt to consider.

the_af 12y ago

I see the overall point you're making, but it's not true programming applications is always (or even often) like building with Lego pieces. It's just that many of us have to write mindless web apps which mostly consist of CRUDs. Those definitely are like working with Lego. CS, algorithms, pointers, recursion, numerical stability, etc, etc, are all alive and well in the world of applications programming. Just not in the world of run-of-the-mill CRUDs.

eldavido 12y ago
Sure. And to be clear, I in no way think applications is easier. In fact, applications, as they're closer to end-users, have to deal with all kinds of socially-imposed whimsy like people with four names, tax rules, interest rate calculations, and 100 other things that make my head hurt to consider.