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Have you done sales? In my experience your "targets" in consumer sales are comprised to two categories: Smart people, where you drop the act and give them the

Have you done sales? In my experience your "targets" in consumer sales are comprised to two categories: Smart people, where you drop the act and give them the data they want (they probably wont buy unless you do a fine job at NLP or "Liking") and the rest. With "the rest" it is recommended as "best practice" to use the techniques of NLP, Reciprocation, Consistency, Social Proof (the salesman's favourite), Authority, Liking and Scarcity. ALL of these tricks are tricks. They are all ways that make the target more likely to buy the product without improving the product. You can play on someone's emotional weaknesses to make them buy shit. Fact. There is no "they're not being forced to buy". If you know the tricks and they don't you will be able to influence them. Hell, I might even be able sell to you (someone smart) if I could place you in a Consistency trap and you're on a first date with someone you're trying to impress. These are the kind of sales the article is talking about and I completely agree with the writer. They don't generate wealth and they probably don't improve the economy.

mseebach 17y ago
Yes, telemarketing. I didn't receive any particular training, but it was clear that the tactic was keep talking, so they'll agree to buy it to get rid of me. Yes, I was the piano salesman from the article. :) Except -- I wasn't pushing a piano at the cost of a family vacation. I was selling a $5 for three issues ($25 off cover) re-subscription to a computer magazine. Experiencing how hard it actually was to push this offer gave me quite a bit of faith in humanity. 5 our of 6 said no and hung up before I got through my scripted pitch. There's a certain sentiment against sales here. But where is that anger when someone is talking about their latest A/B test here? An A/B test is a test to find out which of two alternatives is better to make a visitor do what we want that visitor to do. Since the need for the A/B test, we can conclude that the visitor doesn't take that action be default. Thus, we're doing this design to manipulate the visitor to take an action that's not in his best interest? Because if it was in the his best interest, he should be doing it anyway, without the optimization, right?
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "But where is that anger when someone is talking about their latest A/B test here? An A/B test is a test to find out which of two alternatives is better to make a visitor do what we want that visitor to do. Since the need for the A/B test, we can conclude that the visitor doesn't take that action be default. " If you do an A/B test you aren't actively disrupting me when I am doing things totally unrelated with what you are selling and impinging on my time. Telemarketing does. With A/B testing at best you are trying to optimize your website (and indirectly and mostly unobtrusvely impinging the time and energy I choose to put into using your website). The difference is between trying to optimize layout in your store for when I do walk in vs calling me when I am playing with my children. Telemarketers are active nuisances and in my (politically incorrect) opinion should be lined up against the nearest wall and shot out of hand. What I'd pay money for is an Eliza like "voice bot", clever enough to waste telemarketers time to the point where the whole idea of telemarketing becomes economically infeasible.
  - seanc 17y ago
    Once, by happy co-incidence, I had a telemarketer call at the same time a door-to-door salesman knocked. I just handed him the phone and said "Here, talk to this guy". Hilarity ensued.
    - Evgeny 17y ago
      What if both of them would agree to buy something you don't need ... but on your behalf?
  - seanc 17y ago
    I also once heard a stand up comedian, an immigrant to Canada with poor English, tell a story about how when telemarketers call he hands the phone to his children. "Here, practice your English."
- Quarrelsome 17y ago
  Yeah but remember like mail drops, telesales is a matter of numbers. We know that the success ratio is going to be shit but the labour is cheap and the gems are easily minable. However if you're going to "sell a grand piano" your margin is higher and thus you can employ someone who has better sales techniques. I agree that it is the same game as A/B techniques but there are degrees of viciousness at play here and the classic "piano salesman" is well towards the devious end.

mseebach 17y ago

Yes, telemarketing. I didn't receive any particular training, but it was clear that the tactic was keep talking, so they'll agree to buy it to get rid of me. Yes, I was the piano salesman from the article. :) Except -- I wasn't pushing a piano at the cost of a family vacation. I was selling a $5 for three issues ($25 off cover) re-subscription to a computer magazine. Experiencing how hard it actually was to push this offer gave me quite a bit of faith in humanity. 5 our of 6 said no and hung up before I got through my scripted pitch. There's a certain sentiment against sales here. But where is that anger when someone is talking about their latest A/B test here? An A/B test is a test to find out which of two alternatives is better to make a visitor do what we want that visitor to do. Since the need for the A/B test, we can conclude that the visitor doesn't take that action be default. Thus, we're doing this design to manipulate the visitor to take an action that's not in his best interest? Because if it was in the his best interest, he should be doing it anyway, without the optimization, right?

plinkplonk 17y ago
"But where is that anger when someone is talking about their latest A/B test here? An A/B test is a test to find out which of two alternatives is better to make a visitor do what we want that visitor to do. Since the need for the A/B test, we can conclude that the visitor doesn't take that action be default. " If you do an A/B test you aren't actively disrupting me when I am doing things totally unrelated with what you are selling and impinging on my time. Telemarketing does. With A/B testing at best you are trying to optimize your website (and indirectly and mostly unobtrusvely impinging the time and energy I choose to put into using your website). The difference is between trying to optimize layout in your store for when I do walk in vs calling me when I am playing with my children. Telemarketers are active nuisances and in my (politically incorrect) opinion should be lined up against the nearest wall and shot out of hand. What I'd pay money for is an Eliza like "voice bot", clever enough to waste telemarketers time to the point where the whole idea of telemarketing becomes economically infeasible.
- seanc 17y ago
  Once, by happy co-incidence, I had a telemarketer call at the same time a door-to-door salesman knocked. I just handed him the phone and said "Here, talk to this guy". Hilarity ensued.
  - Evgeny 17y ago
    What if both of them would agree to buy something you don't need ... but on your behalf?
- seanc 17y ago
  I also once heard a stand up comedian, an immigrant to Canada with poor English, tell a story about how when telemarketers call he hands the phone to his children. "Here, practice your English."
Quarrelsome 17y ago
Yeah but remember like mail drops, telesales is a matter of numbers. We know that the success ratio is going to be shit but the labour is cheap and the gems are easily minable. However if you're going to "sell a grand piano" your margin is higher and thus you can employ someone who has better sales techniques. I agree that it is the same game as A/B techniques but there are degrees of viciousness at play here and the classic "piano salesman" is well towards the devious end.