5 ms·

I don't like to usually "me too", but the grand parent comment very accurately described my experience of suburbs as well. We jokingly referred to it as "the s

I don't like to usually "me too", but the grand parent comment very accurately described my experience of suburbs as well. We jokingly referred to it as "the suburban cultural wasteland", because you had to walk 2-3 miles to find anything that wasn't more houses, a grocery store with corporate specialty stores attached (Starbucks coffee, various automotive places, etc), or a school. Most of what you could find in that radius was a mall, which was just a bigger version of the grocery store thing or various pieces of civil infrastructure (parks, community center, etc). You had to go 4-5 miles to find anything that was even slightly not cookie-cutter, which put it at a fairly impossible distance to walk routinely. I'm contrasting this with the city I now live in that the suburbs were around, and I'm pretty sure I could hit an oddball business with a baseball from my window.

watwut 12y ago
Out of curiosity: would a bicycle solve that routine 2-3 and 4-5 miles walking problem?
- CodeCube 12y ago
  Not with kids involved
  - tekalon 12y ago
    I know a family with two young kids that do not have a car. The use public transportation and try to live near a grocery store. They seem to be more of the exception than anything else. It's not impossible, just difficult.
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  Yes, my point was mostly that it's much sparser than a city proper in terms of things that have what I'd call culture to them, and that you're required to have some kind of vehicle to navigate it. Of course, I wouldn't have felt comfortable riding a bike on the road there, so it somewhat mitigates how useful a bike actually is.
- superuser2 12y ago
  Not outside of California. Cycling is a seasonal luxury in the northern states, and car-centric culture makes things extremely dangerous on roads where cyclists are neither expected nor welcome. The number of times I've been shouted at to "get on the sidewalk!" is astounding (riding on the sidewalk is actually illegal in most cities).
  - ars 12y ago
    That isn't true. Suburbs frequently have wide roads that make bike riding quite easy. They are also usually flat. I don't know what you are doing to annoy car drivers, but I've biked a lot and have never been yelled at. (Or heard others yelling.)
    - joncrocks 12y ago
      I suspect this depends on where you're talking about. The actual residential streets are probably fine, it'll be the 'major' roads once you move from there where there's heavy traffic/people in a hurry where you might have more problems. One of my friends has been shouted at several times cycling down a mile-road (i.e. 12-mile), that he should get out of the road.
- ufmace 12y ago
  Not really. I am a bit of a cycling enthusiast, but the roads in the type of places I'm talking about are designed for cars first, with anything else a vague afterthought, and it shows. Main roads being 3+ lanes and with huge parking lots on each side and little to no sidewalks or pedestrian lights on traffic lights. Residential roads are wide and have the houses, trees, mailboxes, etc set way back, have no street parking, and also often have no sidewalks, or sidewalks that do strange things like start and end randomly. All of this creates kind of a feedback loop where the wide spaces encourage driving fast, and the usual lack of obstacles and good bike lanes and sidewalks discourages walking and cycling. The feedback is that the faster drivers and fewer other non-drivers tends to discourage anybody else from getting around any other way. Make it so that it feels nerve-wracking to cross the street or cycle a few blocks, and virtually nobody will do it.
modoc 12y ago
FWIW my suburban town has almost no chain anythings. I can walk to local coffee shops (have to drive to a Starbucks). We have an amazing collection of local restaurants covering almost every possible cuisine. We have a great library, rail trails, public forrest and green spaces, a local CSA my wife bikes to once a week to pick up our veggies, and much more.
- protonfish 12y ago
  I am not sure that the suburbs you are talking about are the same suburbs everyone else is talking about.
  - umanwizard 12y ago
    His experience sounds a lot like Tucson. Everyone else's in this thread sounds a lot like Phoenix. I've lived in both for multiple years. The point is, not all suburbs are the same. Some are a lot nicer to live in than others.
- nilkn 12y ago
  I do agree that HN in general is too harsh on suburbs. However, I think this is quite far from typical, possibly as far as ufmace's post was from typical. Most suburbs are going to be in the middle somewhere.
- superuser2 12y ago
  I think we're talking about different things. The kinds of suburbs people are lambasting here are almost by definition places where the only things in non-driving distance are houses and some basic amenities (schools, big box/grocery stores, maybe a library). Once you're to the point of having more than a couple of restaurants in walking distance (that aren't Perkins) that's not really what we're thinking of when we blast "suburbs."

watwut 12y ago

Out of curiosity: would a bicycle solve that routine 2-3 and 4-5 miles walking problem?

CodeCube 12y ago
Not with kids involved
- tekalon 12y ago
  I know a family with two young kids that do not have a car. The use public transportation and try to live near a grocery store. They seem to be more of the exception than anything else. It's not impossible, just difficult.
ObviousScience 12y ago
Yes, my point was mostly that it's much sparser than a city proper in terms of things that have what I'd call culture to them, and that you're required to have some kind of vehicle to navigate it. Of course, I wouldn't have felt comfortable riding a bike on the road there, so it somewhat mitigates how useful a bike actually is.
superuser2 12y ago
Not outside of California. Cycling is a seasonal luxury in the northern states, and car-centric culture makes things extremely dangerous on roads where cyclists are neither expected nor welcome. The number of times I've been shouted at to "get on the sidewalk!" is astounding (riding on the sidewalk is actually illegal in most cities).
- ars 12y ago
  That isn't true. Suburbs frequently have wide roads that make bike riding quite easy. They are also usually flat. I don't know what you are doing to annoy car drivers, but I've biked a lot and have never been yelled at. (Or heard others yelling.)
  - joncrocks 12y ago
    I suspect this depends on where you're talking about. The actual residential streets are probably fine, it'll be the 'major' roads once you move from there where there's heavy traffic/people in a hurry where you might have more problems. One of my friends has been shouted at several times cycling down a mile-road (i.e. 12-mile), that he should get out of the road.
ufmace 12y ago
Not really. I am a bit of a cycling enthusiast, but the roads in the type of places I'm talking about are designed for cars first, with anything else a vague afterthought, and it shows. Main roads being 3+ lanes and with huge parking lots on each side and little to no sidewalks or pedestrian lights on traffic lights. Residential roads are wide and have the houses, trees, mailboxes, etc set way back, have no street parking, and also often have no sidewalks, or sidewalks that do strange things like start and end randomly. All of this creates kind of a feedback loop where the wide spaces encourage driving fast, and the usual lack of obstacles and good bike lanes and sidewalks discourages walking and cycling. The feedback is that the faster drivers and fewer other non-drivers tends to discourage anybody else from getting around any other way. Make it so that it feels nerve-wracking to cross the street or cycle a few blocks, and virtually nobody will do it.

modoc 12y ago

FWIW my suburban town has almost no chain anythings. I can walk to local coffee shops (have to drive to a Starbucks). We have an amazing collection of local restaurants covering almost every possible cuisine. We have a great library, rail trails, public forrest and green spaces, a local CSA my wife bikes to once a week to pick up our veggies, and much more.

protonfish 12y ago
I am not sure that the suburbs you are talking about are the same suburbs everyone else is talking about.
- umanwizard 12y ago
  His experience sounds a lot like Tucson. Everyone else's in this thread sounds a lot like Phoenix. I've lived in both for multiple years. The point is, not all suburbs are the same. Some are a lot nicer to live in than others.
nilkn 12y ago
I do agree that HN in general is too harsh on suburbs. However, I think this is quite far from typical, possibly as far as ufmace's post was from typical. Most suburbs are going to be in the middle somewhere.
superuser2 12y ago
I think we're talking about different things. The kinds of suburbs people are lambasting here are almost by definition places where the only things in non-driving distance are houses and some basic amenities (schools, big box/grocery stores, maybe a library). Once you're to the point of having more than a couple of restaurants in walking distance (that aren't Perkins) that's not really what we're thinking of when we blast "suburbs."