4 ms·

Seems like the centralized app store model with week-long reviews and free-to-play IAP-addiction-reliefs has lead to a proper race to the bottom. When you have

by 0x0 12y ago

Seems like the centralized app store model with week-long reviews and free-to-play IAP-addiction-reliefs has lead to a proper race to the bottom. When you have to peddle your wares in a crowded spot next to a million clones which are free or $1-2, with no proper way to do trials or paid upgrades, and you also have to take the full risk of development upfront with a chance for being rejected during final review, it seems like everything is conspiring against indies wanting to invest a lot of effort into a project they really care about. It appears you either have to be a AAA megastudio or a cheap copycat to have a chance to make a profit in 99.99% of the cases. Or be someone like Facebook who can invest a bunch of effort into a super polished product like "Paper" just for fun. For example: Imagine spending 6-12 months on your own dime developing a really neat bitcoin wallet app that you'd like to offer for perhaps $20-30. It'd be completely crazy. Who knows if "virtual curriences" are banned or allowed in the app store review process in 12 months?

walterbell 12y ago
Why aren't developers choosing to build PC apps instead? Stardock said that their worst-performing PC game earned more revenue than most iOS or Android apps for which they could obtain revenue numbers. On PCs, it is still possible for developers to sell from their own website, without paying a 30% fee to a platform app store. PCs may be a numerically smaller (hundreds of millions vs. billions of devices) market, but customer perceptions of software value are reflected in an order of magnitude difference in price expectations.
- Ntrails 12y ago
  I don't know what steams cut is, but I suspect most indie developers are willing to pay it for the benefits it can offer in terms of distribution
- maljx 12y ago
  I think a lot of game devs are actually switching to PC (steam), PS4 and XBox One. I know we are, it feels like a much more stable and safe marketplace.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  I know some indie game developers. Plenty don't develop for any particular platform. You write your code in Unity3D, and then build for all the platforms it can (Android, IOS, etc) then you build your app for Steam where you make it run on all platforms (ie Windows, Mac and Linux) which is easy because it is almost just a button in Unity. Then you hope that enough people buy your game to earn the development cost back. You don't develop just for one platform because it is unlikely that you will make enough money to get it back.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    Does the Steam ecosystem provide any support for marketing and discovery of new games, or are users relying on word of mouth networking? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) mentioned Steam Greenlight for estimating demand for new games, but it is apparently being phased out. Is it limiting when a platform (Apple, Valve, Amazon, etc) owns the customer relationship? Seems like it would be difficult to apply conventional marketing techniques to learn about customers, if the platform provider owns the user's contact info.
    - mnem 12y ago
      An interesting recent article about publishing on Steam: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BurakTezateser/20140717/220624/Dynamics_of_Steam_as_a_Sales_Platform.php http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BurakTezateser/20140717/220624/Dy... Generally, you still have to do your own marketing. There's no great meritocratic system out there for discovering games (and pretty unlikely one can arise IMO - it's impossible to objectively class a game as good or bad).
      - walterbell 12y ago
        Found a comment on an article linked from the one above: http://kotaku.com/i-think-gabe-has-mentioned-this-before-many-times-hed-1577259744 http://kotaku.com/i-think-gabe-has-mentioned-this-before-man... "I think Gabe has mentioned this before many times, he'd like to get rid of Greenlight to leave developers open to place their game on steam. Then, users would curate the titles through their own customized storefront. This would drive word of mouth and generate free adverting for the companies that really on the steam digital store. So think of it as following your favorite youtube channel/ store front because it has niche titles that are in line with what you like. You wouldn't have to dig for titles if that's not your thing. This way, the devs of said niche title appears directly to its audience and yet still leaves the choice to the end user if they want to dig into the onslaught of new releases. I really hope Gabe follows through on this idea because it keeps options open and doesn't give you a force fed walled garden that Sony, EA or MS is so dead set on controlling and manipulating end-users/devs with."
coldtea 12y ago
>Seems like the centralized app store model with week-long reviews and free-to-play IAP-addiction-reliefs has lead to a proper race to the bottom. It's not like competing on the web, to be the next Facebook or even Basecamp is any better. If anything, it's worse. >For example: Imagine spending 6-12 months on your own dime developing a really neat bitcoin wallet app that you'd like to offer for perhaps $20-30. It'd be completely crazy. Then don't? Who said a "bitcoin wallet" is anything popular enough to justify a $20 app?
olalonde 12y ago
What's IAP (IAP-addiction-reliefs)? Sorry, I'm a bit slow today... "In App Payment"?
- jacquesm 12y ago
  In-App-Purches.

by 0x0 12y ago

walterbell 12y ago

Why aren't developers choosing to build PC apps instead? Stardock said that their worst-performing PC game earned more revenue than most iOS or Android apps for which they could obtain revenue numbers. On PCs, it is still possible for developers to sell from their own website, without paying a 30% fee to a platform app store. PCs may be a numerically smaller (hundreds of millions vs. billions of devices) market, but customer perceptions of software value are reflected in an order of magnitude difference in price expectations.

Ntrails 12y ago
I don't know what steams cut is, but I suspect most indie developers are willing to pay it for the benefits it can offer in terms of distribution
maljx 12y ago
I think a lot of game devs are actually switching to PC (steam), PS4 and XBox One. I know we are, it feels like a much more stable and safe marketplace.
tomjen3 12y ago
I know some indie game developers. Plenty don't develop for any particular platform. You write your code in Unity3D, and then build for all the platforms it can (Android, IOS, etc) then you build your app for Steam where you make it run on all platforms (ie Windows, Mac and Linux) which is easy because it is almost just a button in Unity. Then you hope that enough people buy your game to earn the development cost back. You don't develop just for one platform because it is unlikely that you will make enough money to get it back.
- walterbell 12y ago
  Does the Steam ecosystem provide any support for marketing and discovery of new games, or are users relying on word of mouth networking? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software) mentioned Steam Greenlight for estimating demand for new games, but it is apparently being phased out. Is it limiting when a platform (Apple, Valve, Amazon, etc) owns the customer relationship? Seems like it would be difficult to apply conventional marketing techniques to learn about customers, if the platform provider owns the user's contact info.
  - mnem 12y ago
    An interesting recent article about publishing on Steam: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BurakTezateser/20140717/220624/Dynamics_of_Steam_as_a_Sales_Platform.php http://gamasutra.com/blogs/BurakTezateser/20140717/220624/Dy... Generally, you still have to do your own marketing. There's no great meritocratic system out there for discovering games (and pretty unlikely one can arise IMO - it's impossible to objectively class a game as good or bad).
    - walterbell 12y ago
      Found a comment on an article linked from the one above: http://kotaku.com/i-think-gabe-has-mentioned-this-before-many-times-hed-1577259744 http://kotaku.com/i-think-gabe-has-mentioned-this-before-man... "I think Gabe has mentioned this before many times, he'd like to get rid of Greenlight to leave developers open to place their game on steam. Then, users would curate the titles through their own customized storefront. This would drive word of mouth and generate free adverting for the companies that really on the steam digital store. So think of it as following your favorite youtube channel/ store front because it has niche titles that are in line with what you like. You wouldn't have to dig for titles if that's not your thing. This way, the devs of said niche title appears directly to its audience and yet still leaves the choice to the end user if they want to dig into the onslaught of new releases. I really hope Gabe follows through on this idea because it keeps options open and doesn't give you a force fed walled garden that Sony, EA or MS is so dead set on controlling and manipulating end-users/devs with."

coldtea 12y ago

>Seems like the centralized app store model with week-long reviews and free-to-play IAP-addiction-reliefs has lead to a proper race to the bottom. It's not like competing on the web, to be the next Facebook or even Basecamp is any better. If anything, it's worse. >For example: Imagine spending 6-12 months on your own dime developing a really neat bitcoin wallet app that you'd like to offer for perhaps $20-30. It'd be completely crazy. Then don't? Who said a "bitcoin wallet" is anything popular enough to justify a $20 app?

olalonde 12y ago

What's IAP (IAP-addiction-reliefs)? Sorry, I'm a bit slow today... "In App Payment"?

jacquesm 12y ago
In-App-Purches.