4 ms·

Kiwi rocket company ready to blast off

63 points by 69_years_and 12y ago

syedkarim 12y ago
$50,000 per kilogram might sound pricey, especially when compared to what SpaceX works out to, but considering that it's a dedicated launch, versus a rideshare, and they can go up at will--it's the best deal out there. It's a little more expensive than Dneppr, but they only have rideshares once a year. RocketLab's biggest competition, right now, is The Indian PSLV. They don't have set pricing, but I've heard that half of the stated RocketLab price is possible. But again, there is no regularity with PSLV. There are a few other dedicated smallsat/cubesat launchers on the horizon, but that's also a three year horizon. For the time being, the Kiwis will have a monopoly. Unless, of course, Elon wants to being back the Falcon 1. I believe that rocket had a greater payload, but also was a bit more expensive. Lockheed is bringing back the Athena, but I doubt they will be cost-competitive with RocketLab. These guys aren't exaggerating: This rocket is a huge deal for the advancement of the new space industry.
- mkl 12y ago
  I don't understand the "at will" thing. Why can't other rockets launch at will? I'm assuming "at will" means "whenever you want"?
  - syedkarim 12y ago
    You make a good point. Falcon 9 pretty much launches at will; they go up almost monthly. In that case, it's just a matter of someone coughing up the $80M to schedule a launch. I imagine there is much more lead time necessary to build a Falcon 9 than there is to build an Electron. Dneppr could go up more frequently, since they have a stockpile of about 150 ICBMs to convert into launch vehicles, but for whatever reason, they don't go up more often. Maybe the $30M price tag? PSLV is much more about advancing the Indian space agency's interests than than pure commercialization, so that's why they don't go up more often. But your point still stands, if someone had the cash, they could commission anything to launch--though manufacturing lead time also plays an important part.
    - rplnt 12y ago
      > they go up almost monthly Not even close really. Ten launches in four years, constant delays, ...
      - syedkarim 12y ago
        You're right. What I meant to say is that their launch schedule for the next two years has a lot more regularity. Whether it actually plays out the way it's posted is a different story.
    - swatkat 12y ago
      Yes, PSLV launches are not as prolific as Dnepr or Ariane. With current infra, I think ISRO can pull off 3 launches per year[1]. There were two launches this year, and a next one is planned in October for IRNSS-1D. PSLV is indeed available for dedicated commercial launches[2] :) I've heard a dedicated launch costs around $15M; so ridesharing much be cheaper. ISRO has two operational launch pads. One of the pads doubles up as Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB), so a rocket that's going to be launched from this pad holds up the pad. The other pad has a separate VAB with rail track to transfer assembled rocket[4]. Another VAB is being planned as of now, so that should improve frequency of launches (parallel assembly of rockets). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle#Launch_history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle#... [2] http://www.antrix.gov.in/pslv.html http://www.antrix.gov.in/pslv.html ; http://www.isro.org/publications/pdf/114%20missions%20Brochure.pdf http://www.isro.org/publications/pdf/114%20missions%20Brochu...
  - rst 12y ago
    Satellites of the size they're proposing to launch (120 kg range) are typically secondary payloads on a launch of a larger satellite; it's the primary payload that gets to select the launch timing and orbit, and the secondary just has to take what's offered.
cconcepts 12y ago
I saw this talk from Elon Musk a long time ago and he addresses some of the rocket technology being offered by other initiatives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Q14cRsMs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Q14cRsMs0 He seemed to give a very balanced perspective - I'd love to hear what his thoughts are on Rocket Lab's Electron, simply because he's in the know and seems to at least try and be objective in his commentary.
timClicks 12y ago
He looks pretty grumpy, but Peter Beck is actually a very smart, warm and engaging guy in person.
powertry 12y ago
Are they pushing stuff to geo-synch orbit? Thats where the big business seems to lie. I thought the article was really vague and surprised it did not talk about Space X and other competitors.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- rsynnott 12y ago
  They're going for very small launches to LEO; they're probably targeting small scientific (NASA/ESA etc) payloads more than anything else. They're not really competing with Arianespace, SpaceX etc, whose major business involves launching multi-tonne payloads to GTO.
  - syedkarim 12y ago
    Correct, but both SpaceX and Arianespace have rideshares on their large launch vehicles. The Electron is competing with those rideshare opportunities. The current market rate for getting a 1U cubesat to LEO is about $100,000. They will also be competing with NanoRacks.
    - rsynnott 12y ago
      My impression is that rideshares can be fairly restrictive in terms of timing, available orbits, and so forth. This seems like it could be useful for small research payloads with odd requirements; not a huge market, but not non-existent. The ESA designed the Vega for smaller-than-Soyuz-2 payloads; this would seem to slot in nicely under the Vega.
- swatkat 12y ago
  They're targeting 500km LEO. Here are some specs from their homepage[0]: Paylod: 110kg Orbit: 500km, Sun synchronous Stages: 3 1st stage: 9x "Rutherford"[1] RP/LOX engine 2nd stage: 1x "Rutherford" RP/LOX engine 3rd stage: Solid engine) Cost: $4.9M [0] http://www.rocketlabusa.com/ http://www.rocketlabusa.com/ [1] http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us/propulsion/rutherford/ http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us/propulsion/rutherford/

63 points by 69_years_and 12y ago

$50,000 per kilogram might sound pricey, especially when compared to what SpaceX works out to, but considering that it's a dedicated launch, versus a rideshare, and they can go up at will--it's the best deal out there. It's a little more expensive than Dneppr, but they only have rideshares once a year. RocketLab's biggest competition, right now, is The Indian PSLV. They don't have set pricing, but I've heard that half of the stated RocketLab price is possible. But again, there is no regularity with PSLV. There are a few other dedicated smallsat/cubesat launchers on the horizon, but that's also a three year horizon. For the time being, the Kiwis will have a monopoly. Unless, of course, Elon wants to being back the Falcon 1. I believe that rocket had a greater payload, but also was a bit more expensive. Lockheed is bringing back the Athena, but I doubt they will be cost-competitive with RocketLab. These guys aren't exaggerating: This rocket is a huge deal for the advancement of the new space industry.

mkl 12y ago
I don't understand the "at will" thing. Why can't other rockets launch at will? I'm assuming "at will" means "whenever you want"?
- syedkarim 12y ago
  You make a good point. Falcon 9 pretty much launches at will; they go up almost monthly. In that case, it's just a matter of someone coughing up the $80M to schedule a launch. I imagine there is much more lead time necessary to build a Falcon 9 than there is to build an Electron. Dneppr could go up more frequently, since they have a stockpile of about 150 ICBMs to convert into launch vehicles, but for whatever reason, they don't go up more often. Maybe the $30M price tag? PSLV is much more about advancing the Indian space agency's interests than than pure commercialization, so that's why they don't go up more often. But your point still stands, if someone had the cash, they could commission anything to launch--though manufacturing lead time also plays an important part.
  - rplnt 12y ago
    > they go up almost monthly Not even close really. Ten launches in four years, constant delays, ...
    - syedkarim 12y ago
      You're right. What I meant to say is that their launch schedule for the next two years has a lot more regularity. Whether it actually plays out the way it's posted is a different story.
  - swatkat 12y ago
    Yes, PSLV launches are not as prolific as Dnepr or Ariane. With current infra, I think ISRO can pull off 3 launches per year[1]. There were two launches this year, and a next one is planned in October for IRNSS-1D. PSLV is indeed available for dedicated commercial launches[2] :) I've heard a dedicated launch costs around $15M; so ridesharing much be cheaper. ISRO has two operational launch pads. One of the pads doubles up as Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB), so a rocket that's going to be launched from this pad holds up the pad. The other pad has a separate VAB with rail track to transfer assembled rocket[4]. Another VAB is being planned as of now, so that should improve frequency of launches (parallel assembly of rockets). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle#Launch_history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Satellite_Launch_Vehicle#... [2] http://www.antrix.gov.in/pslv.html http://www.antrix.gov.in/pslv.html ; http://www.isro.org/publications/pdf/114%20missions%20Brochure.pdf http://www.isro.org/publications/pdf/114%20missions%20Brochu...
- rst 12y ago
  Satellites of the size they're proposing to launch (120 kg range) are typically secondary payloads on a launch of a larger satellite; it's the primary payload that gets to select the launch timing and orbit, and the secondary just has to take what's offered.

cconcepts 12y ago

I saw this talk from Elon Musk a long time ago and he addresses some of the rocket technology being offered by other initiatives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Q14cRsMs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Q14cRsMs0 He seemed to give a very balanced perspective - I'd love to hear what his thoughts are on Rocket Lab's Electron, simply because he's in the know and seems to at least try and be objective in his commentary.

timClicks 12y ago

He looks pretty grumpy, but Peter Beck is actually a very smart, warm and engaging guy in person.

powertry 12y ago

Are they pushing stuff to geo-synch orbit? Thats where the big business seems to lie. I thought the article was really vague and surprised it did not talk about Space X and other competitors.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
rsynnott 12y ago
They're going for very small launches to LEO; they're probably targeting small scientific (NASA/ESA etc) payloads more than anything else. They're not really competing with Arianespace, SpaceX etc, whose major business involves launching multi-tonne payloads to GTO.
- syedkarim 12y ago
  Correct, but both SpaceX and Arianespace have rideshares on their large launch vehicles. The Electron is competing with those rideshare opportunities. The current market rate for getting a 1U cubesat to LEO is about $100,000. They will also be competing with NanoRacks.
  - rsynnott 12y ago
    My impression is that rideshares can be fairly restrictive in terms of timing, available orbits, and so forth. This seems like it could be useful for small research payloads with odd requirements; not a huge market, but not non-existent. The ESA designed the Vega for smaller-than-Soyuz-2 payloads; this would seem to slot in nicely under the Vega.
swatkat 12y ago
They're targeting 500km LEO. Here are some specs from their homepage[0]: Paylod: 110kg Orbit: 500km, Sun synchronous Stages: 3 1st stage: 9x "Rutherford"[1] RP/LOX engine 2nd stage: 1x "Rutherford" RP/LOX engine 3rd stage: Solid engine) Cost: $4.9M [0] http://www.rocketlabusa.com/ http://www.rocketlabusa.com/ [1] http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us/propulsion/rutherford/ http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us/propulsion/rutherford/