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If people mean "the ability to freely speak about something without being harshly punished for that speech, regardless of who does the punishing" when they say

If people mean "the ability to freely speak about something without being harshly punished for that speech, regardless of who does the punishing" when they say "free speech" then they have no idea what they are talking about, and they should be corrected. Such a thing does not exist, and it makes no sense. You can not expect to freely bad-mouth your employer or make remarks that go against an organization's beliefs without any repercussions from the employer or organization.

streptomycin 12y ago
That's not what I meant to imply. I think the problem is that I wrote "something" and you are interpreting it as "literally everything". Do I have the freedom to tell my boss to go fuck himself without facing any consequence? Of course not. That doesn't mean there is no such concept as "free speech". I have the freedom to partake in many types of speech without fearing substantial retribution. Some forms of speech are restricted by the government, others are restricted by other things.
- justinpaulson 12y ago
  There is a concept of "free speech" and it has nothing to do with your employer. It is a freedom guaranteed against violation from the government. That is all. Any other use of the term is inaccurate. If you mean to say employers should let you speak your mind, then say that, but don't equate it to "Free speech" because it is something totally different. And you DO have the freedom to tell your boss to go fuck himself. The government will not stop you and therefore you are free to do that. But, your boss has the freedom to fire you for saying that as well. You are misunderstanding what free speech, and freedom in general, is.
  - SamReidHughes 12y ago
    It obviously doesn't mean what you think it means, because people are using it with a different meaning than what you'd like.
    - h_r 12y ago
      This line of reasoning remind me of new-age "theorists" talking about how quantum physics supports their view. The fact that people use words imprecisely or nonsensically does not somehow automatically make their formulations reasonable.
      - SamReidHughes 12y ago
        Nobody is using "free speech" nonsensically or equivocally here. They are just using a definition that justinpaulson doesn't like for some reason.
        h_r 12y ago
        I disagree but it is tough to reach consensus on this without a real definition being offered, and there was none. You actually are free to express yourself however you like without violating laws or the civil rights of others. All I heard in the way of a definition is "... and I also want to be free of any consequences I really don't like.". Well, too bad because that doesn't exist and asserting such a "freedom" isn't much different than asserting that unicorns exist. It's a fantasy concocted in your head, not a real thing.

streptomycin 12y ago

That's not what I meant to imply. I think the problem is that I wrote "something" and you are interpreting it as "literally everything". Do I have the freedom to tell my boss to go fuck himself without facing any consequence? Of course not. That doesn't mean there is no such concept as "free speech". I have the freedom to partake in many types of speech without fearing substantial retribution. Some forms of speech are restricted by the government, others are restricted by other things.

justinpaulson 12y ago
There is a concept of "free speech" and it has nothing to do with your employer. It is a freedom guaranteed against violation from the government. That is all. Any other use of the term is inaccurate. If you mean to say employers should let you speak your mind, then say that, but don't equate it to "Free speech" because it is something totally different. And you DO have the freedom to tell your boss to go fuck himself. The government will not stop you and therefore you are free to do that. But, your boss has the freedom to fire you for saying that as well. You are misunderstanding what free speech, and freedom in general, is.
- SamReidHughes 12y ago
  It obviously doesn't mean what you think it means, because people are using it with a different meaning than what you'd like.
  - h_r 12y ago
    This line of reasoning remind me of new-age "theorists" talking about how quantum physics supports their view. The fact that people use words imprecisely or nonsensically does not somehow automatically make their formulations reasonable.
    - SamReidHughes 12y ago
      Nobody is using "free speech" nonsensically or equivocally here. They are just using a definition that justinpaulson doesn't like for some reason.
      - h_r 12y ago
        I disagree but it is tough to reach consensus on this without a real definition being offered, and there was none. You actually are free to express yourself however you like without violating laws or the civil rights of others. All I heard in the way of a definition is "... and I also want to be free of any consequences I really don't like.". Well, too bad because that doesn't exist and asserting such a "freedom" isn't much different than asserting that unicorns exist. It's a fantasy concocted in your head, not a real thing.