7 ms·

> It's outrageous to me that free speech is being eroded every day and the same people that write articles like this about discrimination support it, because it

> It's outrageous to me that free speech is being eroded every day and the same people that write articles like this about discrimination support it, because it coincides with their beliefs. Free speech is a right given by the government. It does not have anything to do with your employer firing you for making a racist remark. How have any of your examples expressed an erosion of freedom of speech? I see no mention of the government arresting anyone for their comments.

streptomycin 12y ago
Free speech is a right given by the government. That's not all it is. When you say "free speech" you mean "free speech with regards to government censorship", but many other people just mean "free speech" in general. Like, the ability to freely speak about something without being harshly punished for that speech, regardless of who does the punishing.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Ok, but there is no civil right to that kind.
- justinpaulson 12y ago
  If people mean "the ability to freely speak about something without being harshly punished for that speech, regardless of who does the punishing" when they say "free speech" then they have no idea what they are talking about, and they should be corrected. Such a thing does not exist, and it makes no sense. You can not expect to freely bad-mouth your employer or make remarks that go against an organization's beliefs without any repercussions from the employer or organization.
  - streptomycin 12y ago
    That's not what I meant to imply. I think the problem is that I wrote "something" and you are interpreting it as "literally everything". Do I have the freedom to tell my boss to go fuck himself without facing any consequence? Of course not. That doesn't mean there is no such concept as "free speech". I have the freedom to partake in many types of speech without fearing substantial retribution. Some forms of speech are restricted by the government, others are restricted by other things.
    - justinpaulson 12y ago
      There is a concept of "free speech" and it has nothing to do with your employer. It is a freedom guaranteed against violation from the government. That is all. Any other use of the term is inaccurate. If you mean to say employers should let you speak your mind, then say that, but don't equate it to "Free speech" because it is something totally different. And you DO have the freedom to tell your boss to go fuck himself. The government will not stop you and therefore you are free to do that. But, your boss has the freedom to fire you for saying that as well. You are misunderstanding what free speech, and freedom in general, is.
      - SamReidHughes 12y ago
        It obviously doesn't mean what you think it means, because people are using it with a different meaning than what you'd like.
        h_r 12y ago
        This line of reasoning remind me of new-age "theorists" talking about how quantum physics supports their view. The fact that people use words imprecisely or nonsensically does not somehow automatically make their formulations reasonable.
        SamReidHughes 12y ago
        Nobody is using "free speech" nonsensically or equivocally here. They are just using a definition that justinpaulson doesn't like for some reason.
        h_r 12y ago
        I disagree but it is tough to reach consensus on this without a real definition being offered, and there was none. You actually are free to express yourself however you like without violating laws or the civil rights of others. All I heard in the way of a definition is "... and I also want to be free of any consequences I really don't like.". Well, too bad because that doesn't exist and asserting such a "freedom" isn't much different than asserting that unicorns exist. It's a fantasy concocted in your head, not a real thing.
Zuider 12y ago
>Free speech is a right given by the government Free speech is a liberty protected from the government by constitution limits.
- justinpaulson 12y ago
  You are correct, this is a more accurate statement.

streptomycin 12y ago

Free speech is a right given by the government. That's not all it is. When you say "free speech" you mean "free speech with regards to government censorship", but many other people just mean "free speech" in general. Like, the ability to freely speak about something without being harshly punished for that speech, regardless of who does the punishing.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Ok, but there is no civil right to that kind.
justinpaulson 12y ago
If people mean "the ability to freely speak about something without being harshly punished for that speech, regardless of who does the punishing" when they say "free speech" then they have no idea what they are talking about, and they should be corrected. Such a thing does not exist, and it makes no sense. You can not expect to freely bad-mouth your employer or make remarks that go against an organization's beliefs without any repercussions from the employer or organization.
- streptomycin 12y ago
  That's not what I meant to imply. I think the problem is that I wrote "something" and you are interpreting it as "literally everything". Do I have the freedom to tell my boss to go fuck himself without facing any consequence? Of course not. That doesn't mean there is no such concept as "free speech". I have the freedom to partake in many types of speech without fearing substantial retribution. Some forms of speech are restricted by the government, others are restricted by other things.
  - justinpaulson 12y ago
    There is a concept of "free speech" and it has nothing to do with your employer. It is a freedom guaranteed against violation from the government. That is all. Any other use of the term is inaccurate. If you mean to say employers should let you speak your mind, then say that, but don't equate it to "Free speech" because it is something totally different. And you DO have the freedom to tell your boss to go fuck himself. The government will not stop you and therefore you are free to do that. But, your boss has the freedom to fire you for saying that as well. You are misunderstanding what free speech, and freedom in general, is.
    - SamReidHughes 12y ago
      It obviously doesn't mean what you think it means, because people are using it with a different meaning than what you'd like.
      - h_r 12y ago
        This line of reasoning remind me of new-age "theorists" talking about how quantum physics supports their view. The fact that people use words imprecisely or nonsensically does not somehow automatically make their formulations reasonable.
        SamReidHughes 12y ago
        Nobody is using "free speech" nonsensically or equivocally here. They are just using a definition that justinpaulson doesn't like for some reason.
        h_r 12y ago
        I disagree but it is tough to reach consensus on this without a real definition being offered, and there was none. You actually are free to express yourself however you like without violating laws or the civil rights of others. All I heard in the way of a definition is "... and I also want to be free of any consequences I really don't like.". Well, too bad because that doesn't exist and asserting such a "freedom" isn't much different than asserting that unicorns exist. It's a fantasy concocted in your head, not a real thing.

Zuider 12y ago

>Free speech is a right given by the government Free speech is a liberty protected from the government by constitution limits.

justinpaulson 12y ago
You are correct, this is a more accurate statement.