5 ms·

I completely disagree on the SUV being the perfect "form factor" for electric. At least if the SUV is being used for things like carrying gear for an excursion

by pilom 12y ago

I completely disagree on the SUV being the perfect "form factor" for electric. At least if the SUV is being used for things like carrying gear for an excursion or off-roading. In those cases, it is a terrible form factor (especially with the gull-wing doors that prevent you from using a roof rack). Off-roading isn't as efficient at regenerative braking compared to stop and go traffic in an urban area. They go to areas not at all served by charging facilities let alone superchargers. They generally need even greater range than urban only cars. All of these things make an electric SUV not the SUV for me. If you just mean the silly way Americans use SUV's (to simply be taller than the other cars on the road) then maybe it is a decent form factor.

saucetenuto 12y ago
Well, they're selling it in America, right? So American behavior shapes their opportunities, even if it is silly.
Mvandenbergh 12y ago
Most SUVs will never see a day of offroad driving in their lives. That's good because most of them aren't suited for it in a stock configuration anyway.
- tormeh 12y ago
  Yeah, the people who actually go offroad use Mercedes Gelandewagen or the less consumerized models from Land Rover and Jeep.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Or a Toyota 4Runner, which is built for trail use from the factory. So much that they lost sales in the few years they tried tuning it for the road.
jmartinpetersen 12y ago
Lots of SUV's are bound to the concrete jungle, I doubt it is an american phenomenon. I see loads of SUV's incapable of going off-road here in Denmark, and I doubt the more southern parts of Europe are different.
ghshephard 12y ago
I don't know if it's "Silly" or not, but you are correct that Americans, in general, do not use SUVs for "Offroading."
- gtaylor 12y ago
  Though, I think we're starting to see a lot more crossovers appear in the US (as opposed to full-sized SUVs). A crossover doesn't imply off-roading prowess, as one of the common characteristics of a crossover is being built on a car platform. I'm hearing the term more in everyday discussion, and I'm seeing as many or more crossovers than SUVs these days in the US southeast.
blt 12y ago
No, most Tesla SUV drivers will not go off road. The Model X is a "crossover" SUV with very limited off-road capability. You can tell in photos: its ground clearance is low and it doesn't have large suspension travel. It's going to take sales from the Lexus RX, Mercedes M-Class, BMW X series, etc. Nobody takes those cars off-road. I used to share your disdain for SUVs until I dated someone who drove one. They can be really useful for carrying cargo and the smaller ones get decent fuel economy. That said, I think a lot of SUV buyers are motivated by fear. They feel that collisions are inevitable so they want to drive a big armored box. They want 4WD even here in the Southern USA where it snows 2 days per year. I think a lot of them have kids and it's one more part of the protective worrying parent mentality. Personally I can't stand the handling of tall vehicles.
- rayiner 12y ago
  > Personally I can't stand the handling of tall vehicles. There was a time when I loved the handling of my 3-series with sport suspension. Now, I just want something that makes my toddler less pukey on these shitty northeastern roads.
  - psaintla 12y ago
    Or drive a vehicle that can get through two feet of snow when you work in a field where taking a day off isn't an option.
    - rayiner 12y ago
      This past winter my car might as well have been a sled.
- caw 12y ago
  Whether it's a crossover based on a truck or car platform makes a difference. My girlfriend's crossover is on a truck platform, and handles like one. We recently test drove a newer crossover built on a sedan platform, and it drives more like a sedan.
cpwright 12y ago
Or you use the SUV to carry your kids and stuff around. An SUV is bigger and more comfortable than most cars. - Easier to fit car seats and people in - Seats 8 (as opposed to 5) on the rare occasion that you want to - Has four wheel drive, so handles better in the snow - Has a trailer hitch for your bike rack, which is more convenient than trunk mounted ones. - A roof rack for sheet goods - Enough cargo space for suitcases, moving, or a trip to the home center You can get by with a smaller car, but the SUV form factor provides lots of capability, which is nice to have whenever you want it. I've got one sedan (an Accord) and an SUV (a Pilot), both have their place.
- bitJericho 12y ago
  That's what a minivan is for.
  - dpark 12y ago
    Yeah, but then you're driving a minivan.
    - kbenson 12y ago
      Which really isn't that bad. Slightly less ride comfort than some SUVs, but better interior luxuries for the price and much more versatile in an urban environment, with better gas mileage. Really, the worst thing about driving a minivan is other drivers. People have such a perception of minivans being slow and pokey that people will attempt to pass you on the freeway regardless of the speed you are travelling. If you drive a minivan and another vehicle on a regular basis, how other cars treat you is very noticeable.
      - bitJericho 12y ago
        Never had a problem in my area with that. I will say a minivan far surpasses an SUV in usefulness though. I liken a minvan to a pickup truck that you can actually seat people inside of. It's great, you can haul anything you can imagine, beds, freezers, couches, and if you're not busy hauling giant appliances around, you can put the seats in and haul around a bunch of people. The gas mileage is on par with an SUV, and you never get any flack from the police. Who's gonna bother a someone in a minivan? Nobody that's who.
netcan 12y ago
Slight sidetone: The reaction to this comment is really depressing. Obviously exDM69 means 'perfect' in a certain context. IE, does being electric make an SUV better at being an SUV and doing the things that the people who own SUVs, own them for. The comments and voting can't help but be all about how people feel about SUVs in general.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  People are pointing out the difference between what "people who own SUVs, own them for" and what people actually do with SUVs.
exDM69 12y ago
> I completely disagree on the SUV being the perfect "form factor" for electric. At least if the SUV is being used for things like carrying gear for an excursion or off-roading. Most SUVs are driven by soccer moms taking their kids to school. That's the "form factor" I intended in GP. If we would be talking about an off road vehicle, I'd agree with you.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ensignavenger 12y ago
I don't consider the Model X a true SUV. Tesla calls it a "crossover" which I suppose is the industry lingo for fake SUV's like the Model X. I can see how it would be a good alternative to a minivan, though. So maybe they should call it a "crossover" minivan? (I suppose calling it a minivan wouldn't be as attractive as SUV.)
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  A "crossover" is the industry term for what amounts to a station wagon with SUV-like styling. "Minivan" and (non-"crossover") "SUV" are two names for what amounts to a station wagon built on light-truck frames -- with originally somewhat different demographic targeting in the marketing, but eventually the "SUV" class's marketing broadened to subsume the target that minivan marketing had been focussed on -- originally to fit loopholes in passenger safety and efficiency regulations (which have since largely been closed, hence, the emergence of the "crossover", which was a reversion since the expense of the regulatory dodge was no longer particularly useful.)
personZ 12y ago
the silly way Americans use SUV's (to simply be taller than the other cars on the road) Everyone I know who owns an SUV has multiple children. I have four children, and with that a minivan and an SUV. Kids come with a lot of accessories, especially with modern safety requirements of car seats and so on. It is really unfortunate that every discussion about SUVs turns into some sort of oddball moralizing (especially bizarre when they're contrast with minivans, also 5000lb+ vehicles with largely the same fuel economy). SUVs actually have a very practical purpose. They of course use more fuel, generally, though on the flip side that awareness of fuel makes me less likely to take flippant drives (all things tend to equalize, generally).
dragonwriter 12y ago
> If you just mean the silly way Americans use SUV's (to simply be taller than the other cars on the road) then maybe it is a decent form factor. Americans don't really buy SUVs for any rational reason, there was just a period of very intense propaganda directed at creating the idea that they needed SUVs as an attempt by the auto industry to get around US government safety and efficiency regulations from which "light trucks", which SUVs were carefully designed to qualify as, were exempted (Minivans where an earlier focus of the same PR effort, for the same reason.) ("Crossovers" are basically what happened when the original motivation was gone but the industry had already created the demand, so they went back to making passenger autos that weren't built on truck frames, but still had to make them styled like SUVs to sell in the market conditions their own intense marketing efforts had created -- since that was cheaper than doing another marketing blitz to get people to stop wanting things that look like SUVs.)

by pilom 12y ago

saucetenuto 12y ago

Well, they're selling it in America, right? So American behavior shapes their opportunities, even if it is silly.

Mvandenbergh 12y ago

Most SUVs will never see a day of offroad driving in their lives. That's good because most of them aren't suited for it in a stock configuration anyway.

tormeh 12y ago
Yeah, the people who actually go offroad use Mercedes Gelandewagen or the less consumerized models from Land Rover and Jeep.
- freehunter 12y ago
  Or a Toyota 4Runner, which is built for trail use from the factory. So much that they lost sales in the few years they tried tuning it for the road.

jmartinpetersen 12y ago

Lots of SUV's are bound to the concrete jungle, I doubt it is an american phenomenon. I see loads of SUV's incapable of going off-road here in Denmark, and I doubt the more southern parts of Europe are different.

ghshephard 12y ago

I don't know if it's "Silly" or not, but you are correct that Americans, in general, do not use SUVs for "Offroading."

gtaylor 12y ago
Though, I think we're starting to see a lot more crossovers appear in the US (as opposed to full-sized SUVs). A crossover doesn't imply off-roading prowess, as one of the common characteristics of a crossover is being built on a car platform. I'm hearing the term more in everyday discussion, and I'm seeing as many or more crossovers than SUVs these days in the US southeast.

blt 12y ago

No, most Tesla SUV drivers will not go off road. The Model X is a "crossover" SUV with very limited off-road capability. You can tell in photos: its ground clearance is low and it doesn't have large suspension travel. It's going to take sales from the Lexus RX, Mercedes M-Class, BMW X series, etc. Nobody takes those cars off-road. I used to share your disdain for SUVs until I dated someone who drove one. They can be really useful for carrying cargo and the smaller ones get decent fuel economy. That said, I think a lot of SUV buyers are motivated by fear. They feel that collisions are inevitable so they want to drive a big armored box. They want 4WD even here in the Southern USA where it snows 2 days per year. I think a lot of them have kids and it's one more part of the protective worrying parent mentality. Personally I can't stand the handling of tall vehicles.

rayiner 12y ago
> Personally I can't stand the handling of tall vehicles. There was a time when I loved the handling of my 3-series with sport suspension. Now, I just want something that makes my toddler less pukey on these shitty northeastern roads.
- psaintla 12y ago
  Or drive a vehicle that can get through two feet of snow when you work in a field where taking a day off isn't an option.
  - rayiner 12y ago
    This past winter my car might as well have been a sled.
caw 12y ago
Whether it's a crossover based on a truck or car platform makes a difference. My girlfriend's crossover is on a truck platform, and handles like one. We recently test drove a newer crossover built on a sedan platform, and it drives more like a sedan.

cpwright 12y ago

Or you use the SUV to carry your kids and stuff around. An SUV is bigger and more comfortable than most cars. - Easier to fit car seats and people in - Seats 8 (as opposed to 5) on the rare occasion that you want to - Has four wheel drive, so handles better in the snow - Has a trailer hitch for your bike rack, which is more convenient than trunk mounted ones. - A roof rack for sheet goods - Enough cargo space for suitcases, moving, or a trip to the home center You can get by with a smaller car, but the SUV form factor provides lots of capability, which is nice to have whenever you want it. I've got one sedan (an Accord) and an SUV (a Pilot), both have their place.

bitJericho 12y ago
That's what a minivan is for.
- dpark 12y ago
  Yeah, but then you're driving a minivan.
  - kbenson 12y ago
    Which really isn't that bad. Slightly less ride comfort than some SUVs, but better interior luxuries for the price and much more versatile in an urban environment, with better gas mileage. Really, the worst thing about driving a minivan is other drivers. People have such a perception of minivans being slow and pokey that people will attempt to pass you on the freeway regardless of the speed you are travelling. If you drive a minivan and another vehicle on a regular basis, how other cars treat you is very noticeable.
    - bitJericho 12y ago
      Never had a problem in my area with that. I will say a minivan far surpasses an SUV in usefulness though. I liken a minvan to a pickup truck that you can actually seat people inside of. It's great, you can haul anything you can imagine, beds, freezers, couches, and if you're not busy hauling giant appliances around, you can put the seats in and haul around a bunch of people. The gas mileage is on par with an SUV, and you never get any flack from the police. Who's gonna bother a someone in a minivan? Nobody that's who.

netcan 12y ago

Slight sidetone: The reaction to this comment is really depressing. Obviously exDM69 means 'perfect' in a certain context. IE, does being electric make an SUV better at being an SUV and doing the things that the people who own SUVs, own them for. The comments and voting can't help but be all about how people feel about SUVs in general.

seanflyon 12y ago
People are pointing out the difference between what "people who own SUVs, own them for" and what people actually do with SUVs.

exDM69 12y ago

> I completely disagree on the SUV being the perfect "form factor" for electric. At least if the SUV is being used for things like carrying gear for an excursion or off-roading. Most SUVs are driven by soccer moms taking their kids to school. That's the "form factor" I intended in GP. If we would be talking about an off road vehicle, I'd agree with you.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ensignavenger 12y ago

I don't consider the Model X a true SUV. Tesla calls it a "crossover" which I suppose is the industry lingo for fake SUV's like the Model X. I can see how it would be a good alternative to a minivan, though. So maybe they should call it a "crossover" minivan? (I suppose calling it a minivan wouldn't be as attractive as SUV.)

dragonwriter 12y ago
A "crossover" is the industry term for what amounts to a station wagon with SUV-like styling. "Minivan" and (non-"crossover") "SUV" are two names for what amounts to a station wagon built on light-truck frames -- with originally somewhat different demographic targeting in the marketing, but eventually the "SUV" class's marketing broadened to subsume the target that minivan marketing had been focussed on -- originally to fit loopholes in passenger safety and efficiency regulations (which have since largely been closed, hence, the emergence of the "crossover", which was a reversion since the expense of the regulatory dodge was no longer particularly useful.)

personZ 12y ago

the silly way Americans use SUV's (to simply be taller than the other cars on the road) Everyone I know who owns an SUV has multiple children. I have four children, and with that a minivan and an SUV. Kids come with a lot of accessories, especially with modern safety requirements of car seats and so on. It is really unfortunate that every discussion about SUVs turns into some sort of oddball moralizing (especially bizarre when they're contrast with minivans, also 5000lb+ vehicles with largely the same fuel economy). SUVs actually have a very practical purpose. They of course use more fuel, generally, though on the flip side that awareness of fuel makes me less likely to take flippant drives (all things tend to equalize, generally).

dragonwriter 12y ago

> If you just mean the silly way Americans use SUV's (to simply be taller than the other cars on the road) then maybe it is a decent form factor. Americans don't really buy SUVs for any rational reason, there was just a period of very intense propaganda directed at creating the idea that they needed SUVs as an attempt by the auto industry to get around US government safety and efficiency regulations from which "light trucks", which SUVs were carefully designed to qualify as, were exempted (Minivans where an earlier focus of the same PR effort, for the same reason.) ("Crossovers" are basically what happened when the original motivation was gone but the industry had already created the demand, so they went back to making passenger autos that weren't built on truck frames, but still had to make them styled like SUVs to sell in the market conditions their own intense marketing efforts had created -- since that was cheaper than doing another marketing blitz to get people to stop wanting things that look like SUVs.)