4 ms·

A response to Vint Cerf on how the ACM can do more for professional programmers

15 points by j2kun 12y ago

walshemj 12y ago
Totally missing the point I feel seems to want the ACM to follow the same sterile path of the IEEE where it all about who you know and academia rather than working for all Engineers. Off the top of my head Campaigning for 1 a single set of employment laws (53 sets of employment law is just silly) 2 Reform of tax on options no more huge tax tax bills where you have no actual gain. 3 Repeal of descrimatory laws that effect only those in the IT industry (indirect race a sex discrimination might be a good angle)
adambatkin 12y ago
That response seems a bit grumpy, given that it doesn't suggest anything concrete to be done. I'm in agreement that the ACM seems wholly focused on the academic side of things (disclosure: I'm a member, but not in the academic world). CACM seems filled with articles covering subjects in such a cursory way that I could do the same just by reading the summary from a Google search. The rest of ACM's publications (and all their conferences) seem happy spending 3 pages defining concepts like "a positive integer" with complex symbols and terminology - sure, we can decode that with some time and perseverance (and it may be necessary for proper academic rigor) but it's a good way to keep the rest of the world out. My take: ACM either needs to accept that it's currently geared for only the academic world, or become an organization that's drastically different than it is today.
- geomblog 12y ago
  "I'm in agreement that the ACM seems wholly focused on the academic side of things" the irony is that academics would disagree with this. I think ACM seems to have done an excellent job at pleasing exactly no one.
  - adambatkin 12y ago
    Really? Is there even a single ACM conference where a non-academic would be welcome submitting a paper or talk (and yes, dedicated researchers at corporations count as academics, if one of the qualifications is a PhD)
    - geomblog 12y ago
      In the world of data analysis (take KDD as an example) there are explicit encouragements (via multiple tracks, workshops, and demos) for industry folk to present their work even if it's not considered academic research. But that isn't my point at all. Conferences as such are run by academics and probably have many biases. But the ACM as an organization doesn't do as much for academics as might be perceived from the outside.
ihnorton 12y ago
See: http://teardownthispaywall.appspot.com/ http://teardownthispaywall.appspot.com/ for the context of this comment, which bears repeating: Sadly, ACM, rather than acting like a society with its members' interests at heart, has been acting as a for-profit publisher with a some window dressing to make it look less execrable. Many people have documented this far more effectively than I ever could. If ACM wants to be relevant to professional programmers, stop doing that.
- csixty4 12y ago
  > rather than acting like a society with its members' interests at heart, has been acting as a for-profit publisher It's not just their publishing arm. Try letting your membership lapse. I had to block their call center's phone number.

15 points by j2kun 12y ago

Totally missing the point I feel seems to want the ACM to follow the same sterile path of the IEEE where it all about who you know and academia rather than working for all Engineers. Off the top of my head Campaigning for 1 a single set of employment laws (53 sets of employment law is just silly) 2 Reform of tax on options no more huge tax tax bills where you have no actual gain. 3 Repeal of descrimatory laws that effect only those in the IT industry (indirect race a sex discrimination might be a good angle)

adambatkin 12y ago

That response seems a bit grumpy, given that it doesn't suggest anything concrete to be done. I'm in agreement that the ACM seems wholly focused on the academic side of things (disclosure: I'm a member, but not in the academic world). CACM seems filled with articles covering subjects in such a cursory way that I could do the same just by reading the summary from a Google search. The rest of ACM's publications (and all their conferences) seem happy spending 3 pages defining concepts like "a positive integer" with complex symbols and terminology - sure, we can decode that with some time and perseverance (and it may be necessary for proper academic rigor) but it's a good way to keep the rest of the world out. My take: ACM either needs to accept that it's currently geared for only the academic world, or become an organization that's drastically different than it is today.

geomblog 12y ago
"I'm in agreement that the ACM seems wholly focused on the academic side of things" the irony is that academics would disagree with this. I think ACM seems to have done an excellent job at pleasing exactly no one.
- adambatkin 12y ago
  Really? Is there even a single ACM conference where a non-academic would be welcome submitting a paper or talk (and yes, dedicated researchers at corporations count as academics, if one of the qualifications is a PhD)
  - geomblog 12y ago
    In the world of data analysis (take KDD as an example) there are explicit encouragements (via multiple tracks, workshops, and demos) for industry folk to present their work even if it's not considered academic research. But that isn't my point at all. Conferences as such are run by academics and probably have many biases. But the ACM as an organization doesn't do as much for academics as might be perceived from the outside.

ihnorton 12y ago

See: http://teardownthispaywall.appspot.com/ http://teardownthispaywall.appspot.com/ for the context of this comment, which bears repeating: Sadly, ACM, rather than acting like a society with its members' interests at heart, has been acting as a for-profit publisher with a some window dressing to make it look less execrable. Many people have documented this far more effectively than I ever could. If ACM wants to be relevant to professional programmers, stop doing that.

csixty4 12y ago
> rather than acting like a society with its members' interests at heart, has been acting as a for-profit publisher It's not just their publishing arm. Try letting your membership lapse. I had to block their call center's phone number.