5 ms·

I'll bring up a point here only because I feel like the HN crowd is on the younger side. Its not until your late 20's and really 30's that you start to find out

I'll bring up a point here only because I feel like the HN crowd is on the younger side. Its not until your late 20's and really 30's that you start to find out about and see people you've known in the past that were intelligent, productive people who's lives have been completely destroyed due to their drug addictions. And yes, I've certainly had friends who are 40+ and barely hold down a job and live off friends and family because they were/are addicted to marijuana. It definitely happens, don't kid yourself. I don't know if the correct solution is to criminalize it, but please keep in mind that drugs change who you are. That is truly the unique thing about them compared to other addictions. And again, if you think heavy marijuana use doesn't change a person, you don't know any heavy marijuana users. For example, banning alcohol and marijuana probably isn't going to work, but selling bottles of cheap vodka at the grocery store 24/7 is setting up a lot of people who are trying to get clean to fail.

indlebe 12y ago
>And yes, I've certainly had friends who are 40+ and barely hold down a job and live off friends and family because they are addicted to marijuana. Is the evidence available strong enough to suggest that it's the marijuana causing this? Marijuana is often used by those suffering from depression and anxiety as a form of self-medication. In BC, Canada the province's leading medical doctors have come out in strong support of legalization.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - themartorana 12y ago
    I never thought that about alcohol and it's advertised like crazy. There is no possible way a 12 year old is going to take from five sentences that drugs are safe for 24-7 consumption. In fact, I'd argue that stigma and prohibition are more likely to cause a 12 or 14 year old to try pot than anyone asking if substance abuse might have other underlying causes.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  Supporting legalization is quite different from supporting usage.
  - indlebe 12y ago
    Agreed
eof 12y ago
> because they are addicted to marijuana. It definitely happens, don't kid yourself. As a somewhat-in-denial marijuana addict that now recognizes the health impact it has had on me over 10+ years of regular use, and have seen lots of people placated by marijuana use I think you are assuming causation where there is only correlation. I'd consider myself somewhat high-functioning, but often wonder at where my mind and body would be today had I taken better care of myself (now that I'm in my 30s). More to the point though: > selling bottles of cheap vodka at the grocery store 24/7 is setting up a lot of people who are trying to get clean and recover their lives a lot more difficult. If a well functioning government is thought of as a securely-running application, outlawing cheap vodka at grocery stores at 2am is like monkey patching. Allowing monkey-patching into production creates vectors for bugs. Allowing the state the outlaw victimless crimes is like allowing monkeyh patching in production. If the problem is that there are people who are abusing themselves by drinking too much vodka: then using resources to find and help those who need it, and separating the ones who are causing harm to others from everyone else, is going to be a better long term solution. While the idea of "lets just make it really hard for people to get vodka, then they will drink less.. problem solved!" is great, the reality is that sometimes people will go to great lengths to get their vodka anyway. You just created criminals out of the very people you were trying to help by legislating vodka distribution laws.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
k-mcgrady 12y ago
In studies marijuana has been shown as less addictive than caffeine. Sure people can use it to waste away their lives but unlike alcoholics they are making the choice to do it. Everybody has things they struggle with. Junk food. TV. Alcohol. Tobacco. There are many, many ways in which you can waste and ruin your life. Adding one more to the list isn't going to make a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that many lives are ruined because people are prosecuted for using marijuana sensibly and causing no harm to others.
- lucasjans 12y ago
  Very interesting, can you cite one of these studies? I'm not doubting you but I'm curious about the research.
  - lucasjans 12y ago
    A downvote when requesting the facts. Interesting.
ivanca 12y ago
Many people go into "self-destruction mode" without needing any drug at all. Usually triggered by tragedies or just some phases of life, like middle life crisis and puberty. Plus many times drug addiction is a reaction, not a cause.
jchrome 12y ago
Are you the real Fred Durst (aka, Limp Bizkit)? If so, I wouldn't doubt that you have a lot of friends addicted to marijuana. In terms of a response to your post, I am less than 4 months away from turning 30 years old. All of my friends were "potheads" in high school (and college). Zero of them had their life destroyed by it. They are all productive, upstanding people. If anything, I think the fact that some of them were stigmatized so heavily by being potheads really set them back. Now, this is just anecdotal and I may not represent a "representative sample". So that's just my experience.
- brianbreslin 12y ago
  Its interesting, I'm near your age (31), and had lots of friends who smoked pot then and now. I can count on one hand the number of people who on the surface appear to have smoked themselves stupid. They however never stopped with pot, and were most likely clinically depressed. They got hooked on a cycle of anti-depressants, adhd meds, harder drugs (ecstacy, etc), and alcohol. So I would guess that pot really had little bearing on their outcome, perhaps softened the blow the demons they were battling caused them.
pessimizer 12y ago
As an obvious counterpoint: I'm pushing 40, have known dozens of people who have smoked every day since their teens. I've noticed absolutely no difference between their success rates and the success rates of others. Many of them are highly successful and productive, and some even blame much of their success on their pot smoking. The people that I saw fall apart were the alcoholics, junkies, and cokeheads, going between jail, rehab, and prison - and often coffins. I think that you yourself will be surprised when it's more accepted by law - you'll find that many people you know and respect smoke, and they keep it from you because they're afraid of your judgment. edit: There's actually one difference that I've noticed between my pot smoking and non pot smoking friends - the smokers tend to be small business owners, contractors and freelancers more often than the non-smokers, who are more wage-laborers. I don't have a theory about it, but I've noticed.
- Crito 12y ago
  > "edit: There's actually one difference that I've noticed between my pot smoking and non pot smoking friends - the smokers tend to be small business owners, contractors and freelancers more often than the non-smokers, who are more wage-laborers. I don't have a theory about it, but I've noticed." My guess is that simply reflects a difference between those who are in a position to drug test, and those who are in a position to be drug tested. That would be interesting to study though.
chc 12y ago
People get addicted — to their detriment — to video games and bacon too. It doesn't mean that those are meaningfully addictive substances.
Crito 12y ago
> "Its not until your late 20's and really 30's that you start to find out about and see people you've known in the past that were intelligent, productive people who's lives have been completely destroyed due to their drug addictions." I wish I was unaware of addiction, particularly alcoholism, while growing up.... It sounds like you had a nice sheltered childhood. Nevertheless, my experiences have not rendered me a prohibitionist.
canvia 12y ago
Correlation is not causation.
InclinedPlane 12y ago
By far the most damaging drug is alcohol. Far, far and away the most damaging, in every objective study and analysis. We tried alcohol prohibition and found out that very every ill caused by alcohol being legal we would create even more ills by making it illegal. The same is true of other drugs, and this is an important thing to understand about society in general and its relationship to law. We cannot legislate morality. We cannot run people's lives. We cannot, fundamentally, stop people from making major mistakes with their lives. Even life threatening mistakes. Nor should we. Liberty means the ability to fuck up your life. And to the extent that all of our lives are intertwined in a modern society it means to a certain degree the ability to fuck up other people's lives too. That's part of the bargain. But in every instance liberty has proven to be superior to oppressive collective control, even when that control attempts to be benevolent. Ultimately responsibility must devolve to the individual, because regardless of the law it does anyway. As you yourself point out people are still having their lives ruined by drug use. And those drugs are very, very illegal. It's tempting to imagine you can get rid of something by making it illegal, but in some cases, recreational drug use being the prime example, it often just causes even more problems.
icebraining 12y ago
Its not until your late 20's and really 30's that you start to find out about and see people you've known in the past that were intelligent, productive people who's lives have been completely destroyed due to their drug addictions. Maybe in your case. I was seeing people badly damaged by drugs (alcohol and heroin, mostly). I also know the only reason some kicked the heroin addiction was because they were allowed to ask for help without fearing imprisonment, since drug usage is not a crime in my country.
e40 12y ago
And yes, I've certainly had friends who are 40+ and barely hold down a job and live off friends and family because they were/are addicted to marijuana. It definitely happens, don't kid yourself. Cause or effect?? Marijuana isn't addictive in the since that cigarettes and heroin are. It's highly likely that your friends that are unsuccessful are merely using marijuana to medicate for other issues.

indlebe 12y ago

>And yes, I've certainly had friends who are 40+ and barely hold down a job and live off friends and family because they are addicted to marijuana. Is the evidence available strong enough to suggest that it's the marijuana causing this? Marijuana is often used by those suffering from depression and anxiety as a form of self-medication. In BC, Canada the province's leading medical doctors have come out in strong support of legalization.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- themartorana 12y ago
  I never thought that about alcohol and it's advertised like crazy. There is no possible way a 12 year old is going to take from five sentences that drugs are safe for 24-7 consumption. In fact, I'd argue that stigma and prohibition are more likely to cause a 12 or 14 year old to try pot than anyone asking if substance abuse might have other underlying causes.
seanflyon 12y ago
Supporting legalization is quite different from supporting usage.
- indlebe 12y ago
  Agreed

eof 12y ago

> because they are addicted to marijuana. It definitely happens, don't kid yourself. As a somewhat-in-denial marijuana addict that now recognizes the health impact it has had on me over 10+ years of regular use, and have seen lots of people placated by marijuana use I think you are assuming causation where there is only correlation. I'd consider myself somewhat high-functioning, but often wonder at where my mind and body would be today had I taken better care of myself (now that I'm in my 30s). More to the point though: > selling bottles of cheap vodka at the grocery store 24/7 is setting up a lot of people who are trying to get clean and recover their lives a lot more difficult. If a well functioning government is thought of as a securely-running application, outlawing cheap vodka at grocery stores at 2am is like monkey patching. Allowing monkey-patching into production creates vectors for bugs. Allowing the state the outlaw victimless crimes is like allowing monkeyh patching in production. If the problem is that there are people who are abusing themselves by drinking too much vodka: then using resources to find and help those who need it, and separating the ones who are causing harm to others from everyone else, is going to be a better long term solution. While the idea of "lets just make it really hard for people to get vodka, then they will drink less.. problem solved!" is great, the reality is that sometimes people will go to great lengths to get their vodka anyway. You just created criminals out of the very people you were trying to help by legislating vodka distribution laws.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

k-mcgrady 12y ago

In studies marijuana has been shown as less addictive than caffeine. Sure people can use it to waste away their lives but unlike alcoholics they are making the choice to do it. Everybody has things they struggle with. Junk food. TV. Alcohol. Tobacco. There are many, many ways in which you can waste and ruin your life. Adding one more to the list isn't going to make a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that many lives are ruined because people are prosecuted for using marijuana sensibly and causing no harm to others.

lucasjans 12y ago
Very interesting, can you cite one of these studies? I'm not doubting you but I'm curious about the research.
- lucasjans 12y ago
  A downvote when requesting the facts. Interesting.

ivanca 12y ago

Many people go into "self-destruction mode" without needing any drug at all. Usually triggered by tragedies or just some phases of life, like middle life crisis and puberty. Plus many times drug addiction is a reaction, not a cause.

jchrome 12y ago

Are you the real Fred Durst (aka, Limp Bizkit)? If so, I wouldn't doubt that you have a lot of friends addicted to marijuana. In terms of a response to your post, I am less than 4 months away from turning 30 years old. All of my friends were "potheads" in high school (and college). Zero of them had their life destroyed by it. They are all productive, upstanding people. If anything, I think the fact that some of them were stigmatized so heavily by being potheads really set them back. Now, this is just anecdotal and I may not represent a "representative sample". So that's just my experience.

brianbreslin 12y ago
Its interesting, I'm near your age (31), and had lots of friends who smoked pot then and now. I can count on one hand the number of people who on the surface appear to have smoked themselves stupid. They however never stopped with pot, and were most likely clinically depressed. They got hooked on a cycle of anti-depressants, adhd meds, harder drugs (ecstacy, etc), and alcohol. So I would guess that pot really had little bearing on their outcome, perhaps softened the blow the demons they were battling caused them.

pessimizer 12y ago

As an obvious counterpoint: I'm pushing 40, have known dozens of people who have smoked every day since their teens. I've noticed absolutely no difference between their success rates and the success rates of others. Many of them are highly successful and productive, and some even blame much of their success on their pot smoking. The people that I saw fall apart were the alcoholics, junkies, and cokeheads, going between jail, rehab, and prison - and often coffins. I think that you yourself will be surprised when it's more accepted by law - you'll find that many people you know and respect smoke, and they keep it from you because they're afraid of your judgment. edit: There's actually one difference that I've noticed between my pot smoking and non pot smoking friends - the smokers tend to be small business owners, contractors and freelancers more often than the non-smokers, who are more wage-laborers. I don't have a theory about it, but I've noticed.

Crito 12y ago
> "edit: There's actually one difference that I've noticed between my pot smoking and non pot smoking friends - the smokers tend to be small business owners, contractors and freelancers more often than the non-smokers, who are more wage-laborers. I don't have a theory about it, but I've noticed." My guess is that simply reflects a difference between those who are in a position to drug test, and those who are in a position to be drug tested. That would be interesting to study though.

chc 12y ago

People get addicted — to their detriment — to video games and bacon too. It doesn't mean that those are meaningfully addictive substances.

Crito 12y ago

> "Its not until your late 20's and really 30's that you start to find out about and see people you've known in the past that were intelligent, productive people who's lives have been completely destroyed due to their drug addictions." I wish I was unaware of addiction, particularly alcoholism, while growing up.... It sounds like you had a nice sheltered childhood. Nevertheless, my experiences have not rendered me a prohibitionist.

canvia 12y ago

Correlation is not causation.

InclinedPlane 12y ago

By far the most damaging drug is alcohol. Far, far and away the most damaging, in every objective study and analysis. We tried alcohol prohibition and found out that very every ill caused by alcohol being legal we would create even more ills by making it illegal. The same is true of other drugs, and this is an important thing to understand about society in general and its relationship to law. We cannot legislate morality. We cannot run people's lives. We cannot, fundamentally, stop people from making major mistakes with their lives. Even life threatening mistakes. Nor should we. Liberty means the ability to fuck up your life. And to the extent that all of our lives are intertwined in a modern society it means to a certain degree the ability to fuck up other people's lives too. That's part of the bargain. But in every instance liberty has proven to be superior to oppressive collective control, even when that control attempts to be benevolent. Ultimately responsibility must devolve to the individual, because regardless of the law it does anyway. As you yourself point out people are still having their lives ruined by drug use. And those drugs are very, very illegal. It's tempting to imagine you can get rid of something by making it illegal, but in some cases, recreational drug use being the prime example, it often just causes even more problems.

icebraining 12y ago

Its not until your late 20's and really 30's that you start to find out about and see people you've known in the past that were intelligent, productive people who's lives have been completely destroyed due to their drug addictions. Maybe in your case. I was seeing people badly damaged by drugs (alcohol and heroin, mostly). I also know the only reason some kicked the heroin addiction was because they were allowed to ask for help without fearing imprisonment, since drug usage is not a crime in my country.

e40 12y ago

And yes, I've certainly had friends who are 40+ and barely hold down a job and live off friends and family because they were/are addicted to marijuana. It definitely happens, don't kid yourself. Cause or effect?? Marijuana isn't addictive in the since that cigarettes and heroin are. It's highly likely that your friends that are unsuccessful are merely using marijuana to medicate for other issues.