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Show HN: MTailor – Get measured by your iPhone's camera for a custom shirt
- filmgirlcw 12y agoPlease consider a female version!
- mpenn 12y agoDefinitely in the pipeline! We had to start somewhere, but we plan to expand into every article of clothing for men and women.
- mpenn 12y agoMiles Penn here, cofounder of MTailor. Feel free to post any questions -- happy to answer them!
- CountHackulus 12y agoHow does the "measure with your iPhone" thing work? That seems to be the most error-prone part of the entire process, yet you claim very high accuracy? That would seem to imply that you can somehow get accurate measurements out of the camera?
- mpenn 12y agoMy cofounder and I spent over a year developing the measurement technology -- it's a ton of math / machine learning. The process is also easy to do (you don't need to stand as still as a statue or anything). We also really stand behind that 20% number. We brought 4 professional tailors in and 35 people, and we were 20% more accurate than the professional tailors. If anyone wants, I can go into more detail on the calculations of us vs. tailors.
- rhema 12y agoPlease, do tell. Is there a whitepaper or blog post somewhere about how this technology works? Also, do you suppose you could get better results from a consumer depth-camera, such as the Kinect?
- mpenn 12y agoNo white paper or blog post explaining the behind-the-scenes stuff (kept proprietary for now, but we may write something later). Yes, the Kinect would probably be more accurate (it was one of our original ideas), but it wouldn't have made a very good business. No one would have been able to easily use it in his home (not many people own a Kinect, 3rd party apps for xbox aren't big and when I have seen a Kinect, it doesn't capture your whole body). We found that our accuracy is more than sufficient for shirts (we've shipped a bunch already and gotten overwhelmingly positive feedback). Accuracy is just 1 aspect of a great looking shirt though; style is also really important, and we've spent a long time refining that as well.
- mpenn 12y agoRealized I didn't actually explain the measurement process. You put the phone down by leaning against a wall (or chair or something else), stand ~10 feet away (so your whole body is in frame) and do 1 spin. The software takes care of the rest. The app walks you through in much more detail how to do it. You also need to be in contour fitting clothing, so it's recommended to be at home.
- carbocation 12y agoAny reason to have it that way rather than shirtless? (My guess is that shirtless would be more accurate, but that you guys decided the privacy tradeoff was not worth it for the minimal accuracy gain.)
- trevyn 12y agoWhen you do it in the app, it does say that shirtless and briefs or boxer briefs are OK. I assume that fully nude would also be OK, but I guess they didn't want to go there. ;)
- mpenn 12y agoAs trevyn mentioned, we have both options -- shirtless or a contour fitting shirt. We've found there's no accuracy difference. You can't wear a normal, loose t-shirt or shirt; that unfortunately destroys our accuracy.
- rahimnathwani 12y agoI just tried it. The UX is truly amazing.
- mpenn 12y agoThanks! We have worked really hard to make the measurement process easy to do, testing with dozens of people for months.
- mpenn 12y agoOk, some more of the statistics on the 20% number. We had each tailor measure each person across 17 different measurements. Across those 4 tailors (on each person and each measurement), you could see a standard deviation. So then we also looked at the standard deviation of the average of those 4 tailors vs. the MTailor software's system. Our standard deviation was 20% lower. Happy to go into even more detail if people are interested!
- dloman 12y agoLooks like a really cool product. Are you thinking of moving to android? Don't mean to nit pick but you are mixing up accuracy and precision. If your standard of deviation is 20% lower, then you are more precise then professional tailors. Accuracy denotes some distance from some "true" value. Accuracy != Precision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision
- mpenn 12y agoDefinitely planning on Android (but not for a few months). You're definitely right about precision vs. accuracy. The phrase never polled as well. Maybe if we'd run our surveys in the statistics department it would have been different. :-)
- jrockway 12y agoRegardless of what polls tell you, calling precision accuracy is inaccurate.
- rahimnathwani 12y agoI'd love to know more detail, if you can share it without spilling the secret sauce.
- mpenn 12y agoFrom the video, we build a full 3D scan of you (lots of math / machine learning here). Then we essentially take a digital tape measure to your 3D scan.
- avtar 12y agoThis isn't iPhone related but perhaps others will find the project interesting: http://openfitlab.com http://openfitlab.com https://www.flickr.com/photos/kylemcdonald/9150428195/in/pool-2202673@N25 https://www.flickr.com/photos/kylemcdonald/9150428195/in/poo...
- masukomi 12y agoThe thing that i'd most like to see in the web site is pictures of the shirt styles on people rather than just fabric swatches.
- mpenn 12y agoYes, the website is definitely a work in progress. Most of our efforts have been focused on improving the app, but totally understand!
- mpenn 12y agoRight now, you can only see our selection in the app. The website right now is essentially a landing page to drive you to the app (where all our functionality is).
- mhb 12y agoWhere can I even see fabric swatches without downloading the app?
- elviejo 12y agojust some dumb ideas: for people outside the US, you might sell the measuring app? I'd love to print my patterns and take them to my own tailor... besides if you could provide advice in what is the best shirt for my body shape, neck length and face... that would be appreciated too.
- mpenn 12y agoWe have definitely thought about licensing outside the US. However, we should be able to figure out the logistics of shipping shirts internationally in the next few months, so we should be shipping worldwide soon! When you say advice, do you mean for off-the-rack shirts, or shirts you would buy from us?
- tony_landis 12y agoJust curious how long delivery takes. I made a test order 7-10 days ago and am holding off going to norstroms.
- mpenn 12y agoIt takes ~2 weeks to make your shirt and another 1/2 week for delivery. Just checked on your order, and it should be finished by the 6th and hopefully get to you by the 8th (may be the following Monday though).
- lthornberry 12y agoThis looks very cool - enough that I finally created an account to ask you a question. Can you tell me a bit about the production process for the shirts? Are they made in the US? If overseas, what kind of assurances do you have about working conditions, etc in the factory? If you can vouch for decent working conditions, it would be a big selling point for me (and, I think, for many others).
- cpayne 12y ago(In Australia) there's conflict between VERY cheap clothing vs "work conditions". How much more would you pay? 10% 20%?
- mpenn 12y agocpayne, I don't quite understand your question. Since we don't make VERY cheap clothing, squeezing pennies by using harsh working conditions hasn't been something we've wanted to pursue.
- lthornberry 12y agoThis question might have been to me - I try only to buy reasonably ethically made clothing, and figure on paying up to a 50% or so premium for it. I buy a lot of Patagonia and Ibex, but dress shirts are a problem (suits would be too, but luckily I don't have to deal with that very often). I do think that new models of manufacturing have the potential to ameliorate some of the ethical problems as well, by shrinking the supply chain back down so that retailers actually have some idea of what's going on in their factories. Everlane is an example of what I'm thinking about, but I didn't love the shirt I ordered from there, and they only have S/M/L sizing.
- mpenn 12y agoI feel honored about your account creation :-). Our shirts are made by hand by professional manufacturers in China. We work with them closely to ensure that every shirt meets our high standards and is what a customer would love. Since we make higher end custom shirts which require skilled labor (custom vs. off-the-rack), we focus on quality rather than squeezing out every penny on the manufacturing side. I hope that helps. The reason we can offer high end custom shirts for $69 is that we cut out the expensive measurement process -- a tailor normally spends at least 30 minutes with you for measuring, while we do it with software. We also have fewer returns (since we're more accurate) and we have fewer mistakes (software vs. writing by hand). Additionally, we sell direct to consumer, so there's no retailer markup on top of us.
- danieltillett 12y agoGreat idea. What is the best way to get in contact with you?
- rwitten 12y agoMiles and I are on HN or you can shoot us an email at support@mtailor.com - one of us will get to it there.
- danieltillett 12y agoCan’t seem to find your contact information here on HN so I have just shot you through an email to your support email.
- cdcarter 12y agoJust placed an order after loving the measuring experience, here are some thoughts and questions. * I would have felt better if it had said something like "we believe you're a 38" chest with a 15" neck circumference" so that I could eyeball whether or not what you've done really worked. * Definitely would love to see the fabrics on people! Shows how good your product looks. * I would LOVE an option for a third collar button as well as for a pocket button. If I'm getting a bespoke shirt, I want it the way I like to wear a shirt! * To order again, I'll need a statement on your work conditions.
- mpenn 12y agoThanks for placing an order, and thank you for the feedback! We don't actually process your measurements in real time, which is why we couldn't say what your measurements are when you finish. For fabric selection, we're working on nice photographs of real shirts made (just takes time and money) -- it's actually the #1 complaint we get. We can definitely do a pocket button. We may be able to do a 3rd collar button. If you would like those options, please email support@mtailor.com, and we'll see what we can make for you. What kind of statement would you like? As I stated previously, since we make higher end custom shirts which require skilled labor (custom vs. off-the-rack), we focus on quality rather than squeezing out every penny on the manufacturing side. Don't know if that's what you are looking for though.
- cdcarter 12y agoThat statement is wiggly and doesn't actually tell me anything about your labor policy. Does your organization fall under the requirements of the City of Portland Sweatshop Free Procurement Policy [1]? It's one of the best ways to tell if an apparel company uses unexploited labor. If you do not fit all the criteria, where do you come short and why? [1]: A direct link to the relevant document for apparel companies. http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=218026 http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=218026
- timrogers 12y agoI'd love to use this - guess it's not available outside the US? I'm in London.
- mpenn 12y agoSorry, not yet! We've had problems with VAT / taxes, so we're US only (and we'll ship some shirts to Canada as well).
- l_perrin 12y agoThen, I'll definately get some more before I head back to France!
- scoot 12y agoCan you be more specific on what problems you've had? As a non-EU company, you are under no obligation to collect VAT & import duties on shipments to the EU. These will often be collected by shipping agent on behalf of the recipient's tax authority, otherwise it is up to the individual to declare their liability. To claim this as a reason not to trade internationally is a disservice to your potential customers and to your shareholders, and frankly reads as "we have no idea what we're doing, so we're not going to do it, just in case". If you're really not sure, pay for some basic tax and legal advice who will tell you there's nothing to worry about. Meanwhile, you're loosing potential revenue and future referrals. (Assuming reasonable standards of product quality...)
- mpenn 12y agoI spent some time looking into it. Quoting a customer in Europe 1 price (pre-VAT) and then they need to figure out how to pay the extra VAT separately didn't sit well with me. So I want to figure out a way where the customer wouldn't get a 2nd bill when his shirt arrives. This started to get complicated, so I unfortunately have not been able to get to the bottom of it yet. If you have any advice on how to ship to EU and pay the taxes on my end (so the customer doesn't pay something separately), please let me know!
- elviejo 12y agothis looks pretty cool
- l_perrin 12y agoI've just received mine and I was surprised how perfect the fit was. Of course, it should be expected considering the measurement process and everything, but when you receive a box from someone you have never met and the shirt inside happens to be made exactly for you, it still feels special :)
- artfuldodger 12y agoI'll admit, I was one of the most skeptical people trying it out. I thought that there's no way an app would be able to properly measure me by simply twirling once. I went through the process because it was super quick and I liked how I could customize my shirt the way I liked it. Words cannot express my astonishment when I received the package in the mail. The shirt fit so nicely and the quality was incredible. I wore it that same night, and then again the next day. Def worth trying out, especially if you dislike shopping like I do.
- nick_riviera 12y agoStrangely enough I get the same from £1.75 T-shirts off Amazon and they fit better and last 4 years longer than the expensive Gieves and Hawkes (tailored) shirts I had a few years ago... I think this is all YMMV territory and subject to mystique like wine tasting, watches (jewellery class watches) and crazy expensive HiFi products.
- mpenn 12y agoWe have definitely found that more expensive doesn't mean a better fit. Because every person is shaped differently, what fits great for me will almost certainly not fit as well on someone else. And being more expensive doesn't solve that problem. We use over 14 dimensions for each of our shirts, so that every person who orders from us has a great fit. If you can find off-the-rack shirts you love at a lower cost, I think that's an awesome option. However, I can say personally I've never found anything off-the-rack I like as much as my custom stuff (both pre-MTailor and now while doing MTailor), because it fits better, especially in my shoulders, waist and the length of the shirt.
- rahimnathwani 12y agoT-shirts are generally stretchy, so they don't need to be custom-made to your body size. From personal experience: I can buy ready-to-wear shirts, but the armholes are slightly larger than necessary, and there's always excess fabric around the waste, which means it bunches up when tucked in. Some places have choices of regular/slim/extra-slim, but even extra-slim is a bit baggy for me. When I wear a well-fitting shirt (either custom-made, or one where I've used my sewing machine to take in the sides), the shirt doesn't look better. _I_ look better.
- ajiang 12y agoAs someone who loves getting tailored shirts, the MTailor process was unreal. A couple minutes in front of an app, and a few weeks later I got a shirt that fits really nicely. This is a startup I really want to succeed, because if they do, I never have to go shopping at a brick and mortar again - just order online and everything will be tailored to my fit.
- cpks 12y agoWhere are the shirts made? Are you planning to go into pants, suits, jackets, etc.? As a business decision, the $69 price-point seems a bit high. That sets it at elite, rather than mass-market. The problem with elite is outside of SFO and NYC, you'll get a lot less viral word-of-mouth growth. In most of the world, elites do talk to each other, but they talk to non-elites a lot more, and when they do talk to elites, the topic is usually not clothing. To give a concrete example: I am C-level. As such, I could afford it, but most people I know would not be able to. The only people I could mention it to would be VP-level or C-level, most of whom are colleagues rather than friends. This would limit word-of-mouth from someone like me to perhaps 2-3 people tops, rather than 20-30 (so in practice, 0 rather than 2-3, since it would come up in conversation for perhaps 10% of the people I know). At $69, I also won't buy it on a whim. At a price point competitive with Eddie Bauer, or even Men's Warehouse, I would, just to see how well it worked. If it worked well, I'd switch to it. If I did buy it, at $69, I also expect quality. I wouldn't buy a second one until I see how long the first one lasts. That means repeat business won't come until you probably run out of runway. Custom-tailored pants, in India or Africa, cost $10 for the fabric and $3 for the labor (and are fantastic). Even with a generous mark-up, you ought to be able to have a slow but inexpensive process that competes with middle class mass-market goods (not Walmart and Target, but certainly EB and Men's Warehouse).
- mpenn 12y agoThe shirts are made to our stringent quality controls in China. We're definitely planning to expand into other types of clothing. And since we take all your measurements, you'll only have to get measured once! We get what you're saying about virality. We wanted to make shirts of a quality that we were proud of and after getting many samples we decided that we could make very high-quality shirts for $69. We hope that we'll be able to bring the price down with time. FYI - the salesman in me has to say that if you have any doubts, you can try us risk-free because of our very generous return policy. We're happy to accept a return or remake your shirt for any reason (not just fit).
- readme 12y ago"you'll only have to get measured once!" Unless you get fat.
- trevyn 12y agoI'm curious, are you making custom patterns based on the video data, or just extracting standard measurements and then doing traditional shirtmaking? Also, please add a solid black fabric! :)
- rahimnathwani 12y agoI'm curious - do you source your fabric within mainland China mainland, or import it? I live in Beijing, and have found the selection and quality of fabrics at tailors in Beijing quite lacking (compared to Hong Kong tailor shops, or compared to ready-to-wear shirts from Charles Tyrwhitt).
- mpenn 12y agoMostly from mainland, but we only put fabrics on the app that I've felt personally thought were good enough. Since you cannot feel our fabric, if you don't like a shirt from us, we'll remake the shirt with a different fabric or refund you (no questions asked, no hassle).
- com2kid 12y agoThere are a lot of similar "custom men's dress shirts" services around now days (though good job on the cool tech!), but none of them offer fashionable men's long sleeve shirts, in styles such as those mass marketed by Rag and Bone. As someone with insanely long arms, who already gladly pays $200 per shirt for off the rack, I'd gladly pay for a service that offered custom tailored men's fashion shirts. Any thoughts of moving towards that market?