5 ms·

It's not quite time to go into full Dustin-Hoffman-killer-virus-movie paranoia yet, but the it seems the inability to safely process the biohazards, bodies and

It's not quite time to go into full Dustin-Hoffman-killer-virus-movie paranoia yet, but the it seems the inability to safely process the biohazards, bodies and healthcare paraphernalia is a real problem. Even if you're quarantined, someone eventually has to cleanup the mess you leave behind and its becoming tricker to do. Ebola is a incurable and statistically fatal disease, but it is being made worse by people wanting to see their families and friends before their will likely expire. This behavior places infected persons in communities and situations where proper care and quarantine may not be available therefore the disease has spread. People acting in their own self interest when confronting their mortality is nothing new. We'd likely all do the same. Maybe we need to start treating this outbreak we fight wildfires. Start digging a proverbial fire line. Setting broad travel restrictions and geographical quarantines and hope that the virus fades away over time. Of course this is cruel and inhumane to people with the disease not to mention impractical to implement physically over such a wide area because people inside any area would rush out possibly taking the virus with them.

XorNot 12y ago
The first problem you identify leads into the second. This is Africa. The same reason you can't quarantine and dispose of medical waste is the same reason you can't set travel restrictions and the like.
Havoc 12y ago
>Setting broad travel restrictions There is an "African" border near me. Its got a fence - which is impressive. The fence does double duty as a washing line and is about waist high.
- smcl 12y ago
  Which border? I'm curious
  - Havoc 12y ago
    That would be South Africa - Lesotho. Frankly Lesotho barely qualifies as a country though...its 100% surrounded by SA, 100% dependent on SA and its currency is linked 1:1 to SA. It was more of an example though...borders pretty much don't exist in Africa. The only people that get formally checked are those using the roads & border posts. Once you're on foot its a free for all. Hell there are people repeatedly using deportation mechanisms as a free ride home after doing migrant work. As for the issue at hand...I have little faith in Ebola being contained to be honest. The overall social setup is uniquely incompatible with containment. That being said Rwanda etc have demonstrated a reasonably approach to AIDS (awareness driven) which did impress me.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- vfclists 12y ago
  Do you know of any countries where 'proper' borders exist, other than those between East and West Germany, and North and South Korea, which existed for political reasons and economic reasons? Or the one between the USA and Mexico, which has more to do with a dislike of the racial makeup of those wanting to cross into the USA? Isn't a border nothing more than a line drawn in the sand patrolled by armed men in places where it is feasible? If animals can cross borders at will, then why can't humans also? After all humans are a peculiar breed of apes without fur?
  - pdelgallego 12y ago
    The border between Spain and Morocco. Spain has two exclave located on the north coast of Africa, Ceuta and Melilla. Every year ten of thousands of africans try to cross the border jumping over the 7m high fence. Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla_border_fence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla_border_fence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceuta_border_fence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceuta_border_fence Images: https://www.google.com/search?q=la+valla+de+melilla&es_sm=91&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=DdLUU62yMeT8ywOelYLACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=854&bih=444 https://www.google.com/search?q=la+valla+de+melilla&es_sm=91...
    - vfclists 12y ago
      How much of the Spanish border does that fence cover if I may ask? Does that include the borders with Portugal, France and Italy? It seems its main purpose is to stop the refugee processing system from being overwhelmed, as that doesn't place them on Spanish soil proper.
      - pdelgallego 12y ago
        Only cover these two segment of the border. Spain is part of the Schengen area, as well as Portugal and France, so there is no need to have a real border with them.
      - codfrantic 12y ago
        It only covers a bit of 'Spain' within Marokko. >Spain has two exclave located on the north coast of Africa,
placeybordeaux 12y ago
There have been cases in Liberia of people in a neighborhood physically stopping people attempting to disinfect an ebola infested room. Do you just call for martial law in a country that still have civil war on the mind? Do you call for it when there are only ~200 cases in a country of 4 million and risk an outbreak of one of the more horrific civil wars? The problems we are seeing don't have any clean solution because the actual solution is quite simple, but it failing to be employed properly.
FranOntanaya 12y ago
I think one key this time could be that mortality is down from 90% to 60%. If the virus is less aggressive, infected people have more time to move around and spread it.
steven2012 12y ago
This is what China did during the SARS outbreak. Not only were people not allowed to move around in the country, but entire hospitals were quarantined so that people who got SARS would be sent there to die. My father was stuck in China during the entire SARS crisis in a small village and he was forbidden to leave. I called him several times during this period so it was eyeopening.
- rwallace 12y ago
  Yes, the other affected countries also took proactive quarantine measures. And that's the reason why a hundred million people are alive instead of dead today. Seriously: SARS was deadlier than the 1918 flu, which killed several tens of millions. That's the fate that was avoided. Quarantine works.
  - guiomie 12y ago
    How was SARS deadlier, I thought it killed 8000 people as opposed to millions ... ??
    - TallGuyShort 12y ago
      I believe he means each individual viral infection has a higher probability of resulting in death. The epidemic as a whole was less deadly, but he's arguing that's only because of the quarantine restrictions put in place.
    - steve-howard 12y ago
      According to the Wiki [0], there were 8273 confirmed cases and 775 deaths. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndro...
    - bthornbury 12y ago
      I believe he meant that SARS is more lethal.
dredmorbius 12y ago
The public health approach is likely the only one which will work. And ebola isn't the only disease for which this is true. An even more terrifying prospect is of TDR-TB: totally drug resistant tuberculosis. Ebola infects, incapacitates, and kills within a matter of days. For TB the period can be years, and a large number of carriers are asymptomatic. "Treatment" requires total population isolation for the remainder of the patient's natural life. http://redd.it/2bti96 http://redd.it/2bti96
- Istof 12y ago
  https link that is not shortened: https://pay.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2bti96/the_nasty_thing_about_tdrtb_is_that_its/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2bti96/the_nas...

XorNot 12y ago

The first problem you identify leads into the second. This is Africa. The same reason you can't quarantine and dispose of medical waste is the same reason you can't set travel restrictions and the like.

Havoc 12y ago

>Setting broad travel restrictions There is an "African" border near me. Its got a fence - which is impressive. The fence does double duty as a washing line and is about waist high.

smcl 12y ago
Which border? I'm curious
- Havoc 12y ago
  That would be South Africa - Lesotho. Frankly Lesotho barely qualifies as a country though...its 100% surrounded by SA, 100% dependent on SA and its currency is linked 1:1 to SA. It was more of an example though...borders pretty much don't exist in Africa. The only people that get formally checked are those using the roads & border posts. Once you're on foot its a free for all. Hell there are people repeatedly using deportation mechanisms as a free ride home after doing migrant work. As for the issue at hand...I have little faith in Ebola being contained to be honest. The overall social setup is uniquely incompatible with containment. That being said Rwanda etc have demonstrated a reasonably approach to AIDS (awareness driven) which did impress me.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
vfclists 12y ago
Do you know of any countries where 'proper' borders exist, other than those between East and West Germany, and North and South Korea, which existed for political reasons and economic reasons? Or the one between the USA and Mexico, which has more to do with a dislike of the racial makeup of those wanting to cross into the USA? Isn't a border nothing more than a line drawn in the sand patrolled by armed men in places where it is feasible? If animals can cross borders at will, then why can't humans also? After all humans are a peculiar breed of apes without fur?
- pdelgallego 12y ago
  The border between Spain and Morocco. Spain has two exclave located on the north coast of Africa, Ceuta and Melilla. Every year ten of thousands of africans try to cross the border jumping over the 7m high fence. Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla_border_fence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melilla_border_fence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceuta_border_fence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceuta_border_fence Images: https://www.google.com/search?q=la+valla+de+melilla&es_sm=91&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=DdLUU62yMeT8ywOelYLACw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&biw=854&bih=444 https://www.google.com/search?q=la+valla+de+melilla&es_sm=91...
  - vfclists 12y ago
    How much of the Spanish border does that fence cover if I may ask? Does that include the borders with Portugal, France and Italy? It seems its main purpose is to stop the refugee processing system from being overwhelmed, as that doesn't place them on Spanish soil proper.
    - pdelgallego 12y ago
      Only cover these two segment of the border. Spain is part of the Schengen area, as well as Portugal and France, so there is no need to have a real border with them.
    - codfrantic 12y ago
      It only covers a bit of 'Spain' within Marokko. >Spain has two exclave located on the north coast of Africa,

placeybordeaux 12y ago

There have been cases in Liberia of people in a neighborhood physically stopping people attempting to disinfect an ebola infested room. Do you just call for martial law in a country that still have civil war on the mind? Do you call for it when there are only ~200 cases in a country of 4 million and risk an outbreak of one of the more horrific civil wars? The problems we are seeing don't have any clean solution because the actual solution is quite simple, but it failing to be employed properly.

FranOntanaya 12y ago

I think one key this time could be that mortality is down from 90% to 60%. If the virus is less aggressive, infected people have more time to move around and spread it.

steven2012 12y ago

This is what China did during the SARS outbreak. Not only were people not allowed to move around in the country, but entire hospitals were quarantined so that people who got SARS would be sent there to die. My father was stuck in China during the entire SARS crisis in a small village and he was forbidden to leave. I called him several times during this period so it was eyeopening.

rwallace 12y ago
Yes, the other affected countries also took proactive quarantine measures. And that's the reason why a hundred million people are alive instead of dead today. Seriously: SARS was deadlier than the 1918 flu, which killed several tens of millions. That's the fate that was avoided. Quarantine works.
- guiomie 12y ago
  How was SARS deadlier, I thought it killed 8000 people as opposed to millions ... ??
  - TallGuyShort 12y ago
    I believe he means each individual viral infection has a higher probability of resulting in death. The epidemic as a whole was less deadly, but he's arguing that's only because of the quarantine restrictions put in place.
  - steve-howard 12y ago
    According to the Wiki [0], there were 8273 confirmed cases and 775 deaths. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndro...
  - bthornbury 12y ago
    I believe he meant that SARS is more lethal.

dredmorbius 12y ago

The public health approach is likely the only one which will work. And ebola isn't the only disease for which this is true. An even more terrifying prospect is of TDR-TB: totally drug resistant tuberculosis. Ebola infects, incapacitates, and kills within a matter of days. For TB the period can be years, and a large number of carriers are asymptomatic. "Treatment" requires total population isolation for the remainder of the patient's natural life. http://redd.it/2bti96 http://redd.it/2bti96

Istof 12y ago
https link that is not shortened: https://pay.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2bti96/the_nasty_thing_about_tdrtb_is_that_its/ https://pay.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/2bti96/the_nas...