4 ms·

That settles it, everything googled on the internet must be true, especially when they comport with your bigoted view of the world. I mean, I read on the intern

That settles it, everything googled on the internet must be true, especially when they comport with your bigoted view of the world. I mean, I read on the internet that black people were 2/3 human somewhere, must be true.

streptomycin 12y ago
You can Google for academic literature. I provided some pretty comprehensive citations in my last post. Or you can just ignore the world around you and not be troubled by the problems minorities are facing. Hey, did you know that the unemployment rate is higher for blacks than whites? Does citing that statistic also make me a bigot? Does it make you feel better to ignore that problem too?
- gizmo 12y ago
  It doesn't make sense to do research on race and IQ. Except for people who are looking for scientific sounding reasons to legitimize their age-old racist prejudices. So to be clear: there is no serious debate about race and IQ to be had. There are no insights to be gained from Race-IQ research. I don't believe -- not for a second -- that a discussion about race and IQ helps minorities. The idea that we have to engage in a discussion on race and IQ which is based on racist premises otherwise "we are not troubled by the problems minorities are facing" is ludicrous. Also see http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/the-race-iq-blackout/249105/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/the-race...
  - streptomycin 12y ago
    I don't see why it makes sense to ignore certain areas of racial disparity. If the racial IQ gap can be closed by various means, we should try to do it. Refusing to acknowledge that a disparity exists (not referring to you, but to people like the other guy who replied to me) doesn't help solve anything. I could replace "IQ" with various other metrics like "SAT scores" or "high school graduation rates" or whatever, since they all correlate to some degree. Do you think that would do a better job of getting my point across? People seem to really dislike IQ tests.
    - gizmo 12y ago
      The idea that people who look different are inferior is a racist hypothesis -- now scientifically discredited -- that has been repeated for the past 300 years. People who bring up IQ today use the exact same language people used back in the day and that has racist implications. But when they get called on it they backtrack and claim they never meant to say something racist -- they're just talking about neutral scientific findings! Even though historically IQ tests were used to "prove" the supremacy and inferiority of different races. The entire reason why racism is bad is because it affects the opportunities and quality of life of minorities. If racism had no measurable effect on anything it wouldn't be a real thing. So any thinking person would expect racism to have an effect on SAT scores and high school graduation rates. Talking about race and IQ as if it has no history is like talking about a sauwastika as if it were just a symbol that represents balance. Talking about "SAT scores" or "high school graduation rates" would absolutely help, simply because of historical context. There are many more things to be aware of in order to talk sensibly about race though. First of which is that the concepts of "black" and "white" are cultural inventions, and have no biological meaning. So the very idea of trying to measure the IQs of black/white people is unscientific silliness.
      - streptomycin 12y ago
        Point taken on most of that. I still believe that the racial disparity in tech is a much more difficult problem than the gender disparity, because that argument doesn't change if you swap "IQ" with "SAT scores". Definitely do not want to imply racial superiority. However, the concepts of "black" and "white" are cultural inventions, and have no biological meaning That's not true. If you take a look human genetic data, clusters very clearly appear which correspond with races. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/05/why-race-as-a-biological-construct-matters/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/05/why-race-as-a... To deny that is unscientific silliness.
        gizmo 12y ago
        Race (as opposed to say, skin color) is a social construct that changes over time. It's an us-vs-them delineation. This puts it better than I can, so I'll just provide the link: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-... (And I'm aware of the irony)
- Dewie 12y ago
  What makes a person a bigot in people's eyes in these cases is to bring up IQ, a measurement that has a lot of connotations to innate ability. Bringing up lack of innate ability in the context of race will quickly get one labeled a racist. Now, that might be unfair and rash, and people may have a misconception of what IQ is. But the rules are pretty simple: don't allude to things that have connotations to innate ability, and you will at least have dodged the biggest bullet. If you had not brought up IQ, and instead educational opportunities and such, there would have been no controversy. Yes, black people are in worse position than white people when it comes to education - this is very uncontroversial. No need to bring up things like IQ in order to make that point.

streptomycin 12y ago

You can Google for academic literature. I provided some pretty comprehensive citations in my last post. Or you can just ignore the world around you and not be troubled by the problems minorities are facing. Hey, did you know that the unemployment rate is higher for blacks than whites? Does citing that statistic also make me a bigot? Does it make you feel better to ignore that problem too?

gizmo 12y ago
It doesn't make sense to do research on race and IQ. Except for people who are looking for scientific sounding reasons to legitimize their age-old racist prejudices. So to be clear: there is no serious debate about race and IQ to be had. There are no insights to be gained from Race-IQ research. I don't believe -- not for a second -- that a discussion about race and IQ helps minorities. The idea that we have to engage in a discussion on race and IQ which is based on racist premises otherwise "we are not troubled by the problems minorities are facing" is ludicrous. Also see http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/the-race-iq-blackout/249105/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/11/the-race...
- streptomycin 12y ago
  I don't see why it makes sense to ignore certain areas of racial disparity. If the racial IQ gap can be closed by various means, we should try to do it. Refusing to acknowledge that a disparity exists (not referring to you, but to people like the other guy who replied to me) doesn't help solve anything. I could replace "IQ" with various other metrics like "SAT scores" or "high school graduation rates" or whatever, since they all correlate to some degree. Do you think that would do a better job of getting my point across? People seem to really dislike IQ tests.
  - gizmo 12y ago
    The idea that people who look different are inferior is a racist hypothesis -- now scientifically discredited -- that has been repeated for the past 300 years. People who bring up IQ today use the exact same language people used back in the day and that has racist implications. But when they get called on it they backtrack and claim they never meant to say something racist -- they're just talking about neutral scientific findings! Even though historically IQ tests were used to "prove" the supremacy and inferiority of different races. The entire reason why racism is bad is because it affects the opportunities and quality of life of minorities. If racism had no measurable effect on anything it wouldn't be a real thing. So any thinking person would expect racism to have an effect on SAT scores and high school graduation rates. Talking about race and IQ as if it has no history is like talking about a sauwastika as if it were just a symbol that represents balance. Talking about "SAT scores" or "high school graduation rates" would absolutely help, simply because of historical context. There are many more things to be aware of in order to talk sensibly about race though. First of which is that the concepts of "black" and "white" are cultural inventions, and have no biological meaning. So the very idea of trying to measure the IQs of black/white people is unscientific silliness.
    - streptomycin 12y ago
      Point taken on most of that. I still believe that the racial disparity in tech is a much more difficult problem than the gender disparity, because that argument doesn't change if you swap "IQ" with "SAT scores". Definitely do not want to imply racial superiority. However, the concepts of "black" and "white" are cultural inventions, and have no biological meaning That's not true. If you take a look human genetic data, clusters very clearly appear which correspond with races. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/05/why-race-as-a-biological-construct-matters/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2013/05/why-race-as-a... To deny that is unscientific silliness.
      - gizmo 12y ago
        Race (as opposed to say, skin color) is a social construct that changes over time. It's an us-vs-them delineation. This puts it better than I can, so I'll just provide the link: http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-mean-when-we-say-race-is-a-social-construct/275872/ http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/what-we-... (And I'm aware of the irony)
Dewie 12y ago
What makes a person a bigot in people's eyes in these cases is to bring up IQ, a measurement that has a lot of connotations to innate ability. Bringing up lack of innate ability in the context of race will quickly get one labeled a racist. Now, that might be unfair and rash, and people may have a misconception of what IQ is. But the rules are pretty simple: don't allude to things that have connotations to innate ability, and you will at least have dodged the biggest bullet. If you had not brought up IQ, and instead educational opportunities and such, there would have been no controversy. Yes, black people are in worse position than white people when it comes to education - this is very uncontroversial. No need to bring up things like IQ in order to make that point.