4 ms·

What I would like is something that took street photos and safety info and somehow deduced what visible characteristics correlated with safety. A while back I

What I would like is something that took street photos and safety info and somehow deduced what visible characteristics correlated with safety. A while back I was reading a mailing list thread where someone claimed that adding more street lighting didn't improve safety. This struck me as bullshit. I did some Googling to dig up some fact to show just how right I was. Apparently, not so right at all. There were assorted studies that showed (or suggested, not sure) that adding more lights might actually make a street more dangerous. They can make it easier for a hidden thief to case a place or a target, and some lights create enough glare that it becomes harder to see past a certain distance. It got me thinking that popular notions of how to judge safety may be very wrong, and that reality may be quite counter-intuitive. Another example: I grew up in a city, lived in apartment buildings. Anyone who had any money moved out of an apartment and moved into a house. Hence, anyplace that was all houses was a good neighborhood. Years later I discovered how totally wrong this was and marveled at how such impressions get formed. Having better evidence about what factors make a location safer, and to what extent one can accurately determine safety by visual inspection, would be very beneficial.

test431 12y ago
I'm using a throwaway account so that I don't inadvertently reveal my location. The area where I live is on the map. I found it very interesting that the safety ratings seemed to be closely correlated with lighting. Street View took pictures of one popular outdoor area near me on a rainy day. Of course, it was deserted due to the weather, so the entire area received safety ratings of around 0. However, on a sunny day, the area is filled with families, and I'm sure that it would have consistently received a 10. Likewise, my building received low ratings when compared to the surrounding area due to the presence of an alley (which is actually a gated entrance). However, no crimes have taken place there for a very long time. An area just up the street received a rating close to a 10, yet armed carjackings have taken place there before. At least from my own (rather anecdotal) experience, it's fascinating that the factors which cause people to perceive something as safe or unsafe can actually be far from reality. Anyway, StreetScore is an Awesome piece of research from the ML. I'm interested in seeing the direction that it's headed.
- zheshishei 12y ago
  I'm confident that incorporating pictures of the same place at different times/days (like Google Map's wayback machine) would boost the accuracy, but I'm not too sure how you would need to change the model.
rooneel 12y ago
That's really interesting. I remember when this [1] article came out, showing the difference in streets' income level with the greenery in the street, I found it amazing. Once I started thinking about it, I figured it should have been rather obvious. So, the way to do would be to first figure if there's more crime in lower-income streets (likely. Right? No data to support me here) Then using the 'foliage detection algorithm', which you can use on LIDAR data available from USGS, which urban neighborhoods have less, and more crime. Do some tests, to see if your hypothesis holds and water at all, and it should be a solid test. http://mashable.com/2012/07/18/google-maps-income-inequality/ http://mashable.com/2012/07/18/google-maps-income-inequality...
- electromagnetic 12y ago
  I would assume foliage is correlated to wealth. The most affluent areas of town in my city are generally placed on half acre lots (the old city has some that are on acre plus lots inside the city), upper middle class are on the 1/8th to 1/4 acres lots. I live in the original limits of the city, my house is 100 years old and sits on 1/16th of an acre. I'm solidly middle class and my neighbourhood feels it. The biggest thing to happen in my area in the past few months was a car accident on the main road just today. The last was a domestic in a 3-unit rental (IE cheap rent). The issue with this theory is that my city has a strong industrial sector. So you can actually get great big 1/4 acre housing lots for really cheap. You're sandwiched between train tracks and an industrial machine shop. So be prepared for lots of crack deals on your streets (not even joking). Again, going purely by foliage, my friend had a fantastic place in the city. 1/8th acre lot, amazing location in town. Hookers on the lawn. Ever had to yell at a pimp that you called 911 with a 3 month baby in your arms? She had a house worth half a mil. The biggest issue with "perceiving" danger is that it's not real danger. Sure, there's a lot of dangerous looking parts of town. I know, I work doing home renovations. I've been there. I worked in the roughest area of town. We had expensive tools, we had scrap aluminum (I had two 4ft pieces weighing 30lbs a piece and were easily carryable. Scrapped for $70). My boss was freaked, worried something was going to get stolen. Except, we were completely safe. I'd say we were on the safest street in the damn area. Why? Because all the hookers going home in the morning were scared shitless of one house. That house had a black guy who puts NFL line backers to shame sitting on the porch all day, every day as people came and went. When a homeless guy had a freak out at the end of the street, he's on his way. Why? Because a guy who's likely dealing drugs or worse, and presumably doing pretty good at it to have a bouncer, doesn't want shit happening on his street. The Hells Angels club is in one of the poorest areas of town. When MS13 started showing up in town in the poor areas, their area ended up with a bunch of no-suspect assaults on gang members and it's been a couple years since I saw anyone who looked like they would belong to MS13. It would be a really bad area to live if you're Hispanic, but if you're white. It's probably one of the safest areas in town for you. We as humans are pretty shit at evaluating actual risks. Our fears play into it too much, and our greatest fear is the fear of the unknown. I grew up in a very rough area of England and I moved to Canada. The "roughest area" has nothing compared to middle-class suburbia where I lived. At 2am in the morning am I afraid I'm going to get the shit kicked out of me by drunk hooligans? No. At 6pm on a sunday am I afraid I'm going to get mugged at knife point by a bunch of 15 year olds? No. People on my street feel "in danger" because there's teenagers playing on skateboards.
beejiu 12y ago
We have odd perceptions of safety. If you look at the website, you'll see the first photo labelled 0.51 for safety. But, honestly, what's the worst that could happen there? There'll be no theft, because there are no houses. There will be less street crime, because there are no people. In fact, the one rated highest is probably the least safe, as it would likely be targeted by thieves looking for high valued property in houses from a nice neighbourhood. As far as murders and violence is concerned, these crimes are mostly targeted and it doesn't really depend on where you live.
- PeterisP 12y ago
  You seem to discuss much different aspects of safety - I'd assume that the article refers to the threat to a potential passer-by, not of the general crime rate in that area, which would include thefts from property. Also, safety is not neccessarily correlated with a crimerate - if place A has 100 times lower rate of street crime than place B, "because there are no people" as it has 1000 times less foot traffic, then place A is 10 times more dangerous to a person who actually happens to be walking there.

test431 12y ago

I'm using a throwaway account so that I don't inadvertently reveal my location. The area where I live is on the map. I found it very interesting that the safety ratings seemed to be closely correlated with lighting. Street View took pictures of one popular outdoor area near me on a rainy day. Of course, it was deserted due to the weather, so the entire area received safety ratings of around 0. However, on a sunny day, the area is filled with families, and I'm sure that it would have consistently received a 10. Likewise, my building received low ratings when compared to the surrounding area due to the presence of an alley (which is actually a gated entrance). However, no crimes have taken place there for a very long time. An area just up the street received a rating close to a 10, yet armed carjackings have taken place there before. At least from my own (rather anecdotal) experience, it's fascinating that the factors which cause people to perceive something as safe or unsafe can actually be far from reality. Anyway, StreetScore is an Awesome piece of research from the ML. I'm interested in seeing the direction that it's headed.

zheshishei 12y ago
I'm confident that incorporating pictures of the same place at different times/days (like Google Map's wayback machine) would boost the accuracy, but I'm not too sure how you would need to change the model.

rooneel 12y ago

That's really interesting. I remember when this [1] article came out, showing the difference in streets' income level with the greenery in the street, I found it amazing. Once I started thinking about it, I figured it should have been rather obvious. So, the way to do would be to first figure if there's more crime in lower-income streets (likely. Right? No data to support me here) Then using the 'foliage detection algorithm', which you can use on LIDAR data available from USGS, which urban neighborhoods have less, and more crime. Do some tests, to see if your hypothesis holds and water at all, and it should be a solid test. http://mashable.com/2012/07/18/google-maps-income-inequality/ http://mashable.com/2012/07/18/google-maps-income-inequality...

electromagnetic 12y ago
I would assume foliage is correlated to wealth. The most affluent areas of town in my city are generally placed on half acre lots (the old city has some that are on acre plus lots inside the city), upper middle class are on the 1/8th to 1/4 acres lots. I live in the original limits of the city, my house is 100 years old and sits on 1/16th of an acre. I'm solidly middle class and my neighbourhood feels it. The biggest thing to happen in my area in the past few months was a car accident on the main road just today. The last was a domestic in a 3-unit rental (IE cheap rent). The issue with this theory is that my city has a strong industrial sector. So you can actually get great big 1/4 acre housing lots for really cheap. You're sandwiched between train tracks and an industrial machine shop. So be prepared for lots of crack deals on your streets (not even joking). Again, going purely by foliage, my friend had a fantastic place in the city. 1/8th acre lot, amazing location in town. Hookers on the lawn. Ever had to yell at a pimp that you called 911 with a 3 month baby in your arms? She had a house worth half a mil. The biggest issue with "perceiving" danger is that it's not real danger. Sure, there's a lot of dangerous looking parts of town. I know, I work doing home renovations. I've been there. I worked in the roughest area of town. We had expensive tools, we had scrap aluminum (I had two 4ft pieces weighing 30lbs a piece and were easily carryable. Scrapped for $70). My boss was freaked, worried something was going to get stolen. Except, we were completely safe. I'd say we were on the safest street in the damn area. Why? Because all the hookers going home in the morning were scared shitless of one house. That house had a black guy who puts NFL line backers to shame sitting on the porch all day, every day as people came and went. When a homeless guy had a freak out at the end of the street, he's on his way. Why? Because a guy who's likely dealing drugs or worse, and presumably doing pretty good at it to have a bouncer, doesn't want shit happening on his street. The Hells Angels club is in one of the poorest areas of town. When MS13 started showing up in town in the poor areas, their area ended up with a bunch of no-suspect assaults on gang members and it's been a couple years since I saw anyone who looked like they would belong to MS13. It would be a really bad area to live if you're Hispanic, but if you're white. It's probably one of the safest areas in town for you. We as humans are pretty shit at evaluating actual risks. Our fears play into it too much, and our greatest fear is the fear of the unknown. I grew up in a very rough area of England and I moved to Canada. The "roughest area" has nothing compared to middle-class suburbia where I lived. At 2am in the morning am I afraid I'm going to get the shit kicked out of me by drunk hooligans? No. At 6pm on a sunday am I afraid I'm going to get mugged at knife point by a bunch of 15 year olds? No. People on my street feel "in danger" because there's teenagers playing on skateboards.

beejiu 12y ago

We have odd perceptions of safety. If you look at the website, you'll see the first photo labelled 0.51 for safety. But, honestly, what's the worst that could happen there? There'll be no theft, because there are no houses. There will be less street crime, because there are no people. In fact, the one rated highest is probably the least safe, as it would likely be targeted by thieves looking for high valued property in houses from a nice neighbourhood. As far as murders and violence is concerned, these crimes are mostly targeted and it doesn't really depend on where you live.

PeterisP 12y ago
You seem to discuss much different aspects of safety - I'd assume that the article refers to the threat to a potential passer-by, not of the general crime rate in that area, which would include thefts from property. Also, safety is not neccessarily correlated with a crimerate - if place A has 100 times lower rate of street crime than place B, "because there are no people" as it has 1000 times less foot traffic, then place A is 10 times more dangerous to a person who actually happens to be walking there.