4 ms·

There's likely to be big correlations between class and race. Gender is obviously a much more complicated one. I think aspirations are likely to play a big rol

by jiggy2011 12y ago

There's likely to be big correlations between class and race. Gender is obviously a much more complicated one. I think aspirations are likely to play a big role here, after all people tend to judge their successes relative to their family and close friends. So for a kid from a poor neighbourhood (who's more likely to be black), getting a good job with a decent salary and benefits is a great success already and running a startup is too risky so there's less incentive. If you come from an upper middle class family and all of your siblings are training to be lawyers or doctors then that ups the ante a lot in what your "floor" to success is, and like you say risk is reduced because of family so starting "the next facebook" looks like a more attractive option.

JVIDEL 12y ago
The problem is that as the gap widens that poor kid might have no actual chance at a decent stable job with benefits. Odds are he will be stuck in part-time land with no benefits and doing odd jobs on the side, so for him going with a startup must seem like a better choice. Also since we are talking about aspirations you have to consider the "all or nothing" attitude that's so common these days, and I see a lot of people particularly in the lower classes who are far more motivated about the tiniest possibility of a quick jackpot than a slow but steady improvement in their lives. But then again that way of thinking might have more to do with the way the middle class (the "steady option") is disappearing than with a social fad.
- jiggy2011 12y ago
  Someone sufficiently poor probably doesn't have the funds to start a startup period. You might strike lucky and get funding from YC but how likely is that to cover everything? Including getting to the stage of securing the funding (like travel expenses, time to build a prototype etc). Also amongst poorer families there is a greater expectation that children will contribute back to the family pot at an earlier age. I agree that it sucks to be poor, but I don't know how much startup funding can fix that.
rhizome 12y ago
So for a kid from a poor neighbourhood (who's more likely to be black), getting a good job with a decent salary and benefits is a great success already and running a startup is too risky so there's less incentive. For starting and running a startup, maybe, but those forces are much less in effect when the upper classes are doing the hiring. As we see at a lot of these companies, they aren't really reaching very far outside of their cohort. Cue the culture-fit debate.
jmromer 12y ago
Using race as a proxy for class is a great way to generate oppression along some margin (i.e., for some poor bastard(s) unlucky enough to be both poor and not a member of a protected racial/ethnic group). If you want to talk about class and poverty, talk about class and poverty. There's enough misery in the world.

JVIDEL 12y ago

The problem is that as the gap widens that poor kid might have no actual chance at a decent stable job with benefits. Odds are he will be stuck in part-time land with no benefits and doing odd jobs on the side, so for him going with a startup must seem like a better choice. Also since we are talking about aspirations you have to consider the "all or nothing" attitude that's so common these days, and I see a lot of people particularly in the lower classes who are far more motivated about the tiniest possibility of a quick jackpot than a slow but steady improvement in their lives. But then again that way of thinking might have more to do with the way the middle class (the "steady option") is disappearing than with a social fad.

jiggy2011 12y ago
Someone sufficiently poor probably doesn't have the funds to start a startup period. You might strike lucky and get funding from YC but how likely is that to cover everything? Including getting to the stage of securing the funding (like travel expenses, time to build a prototype etc). Also amongst poorer families there is a greater expectation that children will contribute back to the family pot at an earlier age. I agree that it sucks to be poor, but I don't know how much startup funding can fix that.

rhizome 12y ago

So for a kid from a poor neighbourhood (who's more likely to be black), getting a good job with a decent salary and benefits is a great success already and running a startup is too risky so there's less incentive. For starting and running a startup, maybe, but those forces are much less in effect when the upper classes are doing the hiring. As we see at a lot of these companies, they aren't really reaching very far outside of their cohort. Cue the culture-fit debate.

jmromer 12y ago

Using race as a proxy for class is a great way to generate oppression along some margin (i.e., for some poor bastard(s) unlucky enough to be both poor and not a member of a protected racial/ethnic group). If you want to talk about class and poverty, talk about class and poverty. There's enough misery in the world.